Think my sea urchin is in trouble...based on various readings

[saltwater-girl]

Having a new tank setup and being a newbie to the saltwater hobby ... I purchased a beautiful red/white sticky sea urchin (which I believe is in the tuxedo urchin family or some such family) for my tank. Little did I know that this fellow would struggle from the time I placed him into his new home.

The first 15 minutes in the tank found him totally tangled up in a fake plant I had in the tank for my clownfish. I quickly extricated him from the various fronds and removed the plant from the tank. The next thing to get stuck to him was a small algae plant that I had also purchased for the tank (a halimedia plant)...the urchin moved around the tank with the plant attached to his back for a few days then I felt like I should probably remove that from him also so I did and got rid of that plant.

The next think I noticed was that the urchin's soft spines where disappearing and his hard spines were turning orange in some locations near the body. Not being real sure what was happening I did some internet research and the word was basically that if the urchin was losing spines he probably would not make it but possibly he was malnourished. As my tank is a new setup I felt this was indeed a possiblity. The articles suggested feeding the urchin seaweed sheets which I immediately did. I fed him a 3x3 sheet two days ago and another yesterday.

As of today the urchin is still moving around the tank but he does not look much better in regard to appearance (spines) although I do not believe he has lost more.

So my questions are as follows:
1) does anyone have any experience with sea urchins and if so, do you have experience with the symptoms I have reported
2) what suggestions or changes can I make to help
3) if feeding the seaweed is a good thing, how often should I feed it and how much

I can probably get a picture of my guy tomorrow if you need one...water parameters are pretty normal with nitrates being a little up at 10ppm, ph is 8.2, temp is 76, ammonia is 0, nitrites are 0

Oh, I also read that urchins like warmer water (around 80 degrees) so maybe our water is too cold for him but how do you balance fish and urchins if that is true? Isn't 80 degrees a bit warm for fish?

Thanks for your help and assistance :?:

 

[Chichas01]

a couple things come to mind, how did you acclimate him and it's perfectly normal for these urchins to 'stick' to things. it's what they do. they will pick up all kinds of loose stuff as and haul it around on their backs so you don't need to pull anything off of them. I've had mine pick up hermit crabs and take them for a ride.

Also, do you have enough live rock? With plenty of live rock they should get enough food from that.

 

[saltwater-girl]

a couple things come to mind, how did you acclimate him and it's perfectly normal for these urchins to 'stick' to things. it's what they do. they will pick up all kinds of loose stuff as and haul it around on their backs so you don't need to pull anything off of them. I've had mine pick up hermit crabs and take them for a ride.

Also, do you have enough live rock? With plenty of live rock they should get enough food from that.

I acclimated him simply by putting the bag in the tank for about 2 hours...no drip or anything and then quickly removed him and gently placed him in the tank. As for live rock...my tank only came with a couple of pieces...we have added about another 30-40 lbs but it is still pretty new (and we knew nothing about curing it so it is curing in the tank )

He's gone into hiding this morning (i have a number of caves in my live rock layout) as I don't see him on the tank walls...I'll put some more algae out on a clip and see if he shows up for a feeding...if now I may have to search for him just to make sure he's ok

 

[Derbird]

I acclimated him simply by putting the bag in the tank for about 2 hours...no drip or anything and then quickly removed him and gently placed him in the tank. As for live rock...my tank only came with a couple of pieces...we have added about another 30-40 lbs but it is still pretty new (and we knew nothing about curing it so it is curing in the tank )

He's gone into hiding this morning (i have a number of caves in my live rock layout) as I don't see him on the tank walls...I'll put some more algae out on a clip and see if he shows up for a feeding...if now I may have to search for him just to make sure he's ok

Acclimation is one of the most important things you can do for your new critters. And is very different from how we do it in freshwater.

In the ocean water chemistry tends not to change very much and when it does it is a slow prosses. The animals that live there never developed the ability to deal with large swings in chemistry like river or lake animals have had too. So they are not able to handle the sudden shock and stress of sudden changes. Inverts this seems to be especially true of.

The drip method is the best and is pretty easy. All I do is take some old air tube, tie a knot in the lower end and suck water from the tank through it to make a syphon. Then tighten the knot until it has about a drip a second. Open the bag and let the water drip in until the volume has doubled or even tripled. Then I relase the animal in to my tank. If the animal is right out of the ocean (Something I do not recomend) then the drip should be much slower and take hours.

I float the bag in my sump durring this to do the temp acclimation at the same time.

If you don't like the air tube way you can float the bag and add a half cup of tank water every five or so minutes until the water volume has doubled or tripled. Also effective but it has lots of sudden changes instead of the slow constant change of the drip method.

I have even started to do this on my freshwater animals and have noticed they are much happier and more active faster then the old float and dump method I did before I found saltwater.

Sorry to write so much but I hope it helped

 

[saltwater-girl]

My LFS which is a saltwater place said he did not use the drip method so I went with what he said...and just floated him. Next time I will know...thank you for your input...very helpful

 

[senji]

if u are getting real worried ill take him untill u get a stable system and a good amount of coraline growing. just a thought dont want to see a critter die. my long spine does great

 

[NC2WA]

..and to answer your question 80 is not too hot for corals or fish...when you get above 84, then start to worry.

 

[Chichas01]

My LFS which is a saltwater place said he did not use the drip method so I went with what he said...and just floated him. Next time I will know...thank you for your input...very helpful

Urchins and Starfish are pretty sensitive to changes in water chemistry. I've had starfish 'melt' because I didn't properly acclimate long enough. Drip method works really well for acclimation and the changes from the LFS to your home might have produced enough stress to send the critter over the edge.
Your LFS might not have drip acclimated and used another method like adding a half cup of water every 1/2 hour or so but if they told you you didn't need to do anything other than float the bag for a while and dump him in, I'd be looking for a new LFS.

It sounds like you have enough LR so just keep up your water quality and hopefully the little guy will pull through.

 

[user 26995]

Hope your urchin does okay.
As for him carrying things around on his back, that is a normal behavior. I had to stop my husband from removing stuff off of mine. Some of the things it was carrying around was pretty funny. Found him with a scarlet reef crab attached to his back. The poor thing was riding around on it upside down. Probably couldn't figure out what was going on. LOL I did rescue it. A year or so ago, one of the covers for a koralia pump fell down behind the rock. I could not get it out but he picked it up one day and brought it out for me! LOL! He has carried around numerous frags but mostly empty shells. I was told it was a happy urchin if it was carrying things. I also had a sudden change in water chem and it lost all its needles. It dropped them almost instantly all in one spot. I thought it was a goner, but since I noticed it quick and made some changes, it survived and has regrown all its needles.

 

[Skimmy]

IMO, ALL echinoderms should be avoided in closed reef systems,
either because you cant feed them properly,
innapropriate behavior like chewing up your acrylic and knocking things over or eating livestock,
or toxicity in some cases.
just say no to starfish/urchins/cukes....lulz

 

[user 26995]

awww, come on skimmy. I don't know about your reef, but my tanks will more than feed the starfish and urchin. I have had the tuxedo urchin and two sand sifting starfish and one reef starfish for a couple years now. And they are growing.
Cucumbers though I might agree with you on them.

 

[Skimmy]

i didnt say it couldnt be done, i said, imo it should be avoided.
how many times has yor urchin knocked over your stuff??
and did you know your sand sifter starfish are eating the majority of beneficial microfauna in the sand??
and that they aid in the diminishing the biodiversity in your small closed reef system?
im just sayin'... there's solid reasons for an aquarist to stongly consider not having echinoderms in their closed system.

 

[saltwater-girl]

Senji...thanks for the offer but I am considering this a learning experience...for me at least...

NC2WA...thanks for that input on temps

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Chicas01...I see my live rock turning white in spots...I think that's where the urchin is snacking on it

Ipisces...no regrowth yet and still losing a few...feed him some more seaweed last night...he ate it all...he's still moving around so I think that's a good sign...we'll see

Skimmy...he has actually broken some dead coral I had in there and also broke off a piece of live rock (a small overhang)...geez..I did not realize they were so strong...but I'm leaving up to the powers that be to see if he survives or not and becomes a permanent member of my tank

​

 

[leena2674]

Aside from what has already been mentioned, urchins and starfish should never be deliberately exposed to air while handling. They have no way of purging air from their bodies. Your LFS should have told you that when they explained acclimation. Exposure to air will not necessarily be lethal but can do some damage and increase acclimation stress.

 

[NC2WA]

urchins and starfish should never be deliberately exposed to air while handling

same can be said about clams.