Transitioning to barebottom

[jrgilles]

Wonder if any of you have any advice on how to go from by 1" sugar sand bed to barebottom...

I picked up some tunze powerheads and have them running at 15V, but it would be nice to put the 24V jumper back in and crank em up a bit Also getting some piles of sand forming in any lower flow areas..

I can remove the sand over time with water changes. I'm mostly worried about if I need to put something under the rocks to protect the bottom of the tank. And if so, what a good way to go about that is (hopefully not involving removing everything from the tank.)

thanks
rob

 

[Peppie]

Rob,
There is alot of info on just this subject on a different site (Reef Central). It is called the Bare Bottom Club.

 

[jrgilles]

Cool, thanks. I'll go check that out.

 

[Peppie]

I give it a shot. You can get most of the sand out by water changes, but I dont think you will get it all. Most of the people that did it that way did so because they were worried about rising there nitrates, also they didnt want to lose all of their filtration in the sand all at once. Be carefull that you dont have a rock slide if done that way.
As for putting something under your rock most people use Starboard. aka cutting board material. to protect the bottom of their tank. I did not use anything. As you know it will only be a matter of time untill it is covered with coraline. If you do put down starboard you may want to seal the edges with silicone cause detris will get under it.
If it were me I would remove as much as I could with waterchanges. When I was really close to haveing it all out , Like about after 4-6 weeks. I would then remove all the rock and get the last little bit. Then I would redo the rocks so they will not fall over. Some people will elevate them off the bottom with pvc tubes. I did not. I put down small rocks to set the big rock on top. The less you have touching the bottom the better the flow can be on the bottom.
It took a little fine tuning with my PHs to get the detris to pool up in small piles near the front of the tank so I can suck it up with my watercahnges.
Hope this helps.

 

[returnofsid]

Your rock should be sitting, directly on the tank bottom, anyway, NOT on the sand. You CAN put egg crate, or other material, under your rock, but it's not necessary, at all. Your tank will be just fine, with rock sitting on the bottom, as long as it's stable.

As for removing your sand, with only a shallow sand bed, you really don't run much of a risk of causing any problems. Siphon it out, during a couple water changes, and you're good to go. Since you're have trouble getting ALL of it out, after you've removed all you can, put a canister filter on the tank, with a micron cartridge, to catch the sand that's suspended in the water column. Then, keep the sand suspended, in the water column, with the use of power heads. It'll get caught by the filter cartridge.

 

[jrgilles]

I don't need to worry about the rock cracking the bottom glass? That was my big concern. If there were a quake or something, i'd hate my tank to fall into my sump.

That would definately be the easiest way to do it though...

 

[Frankie]

Your rock should be sitting, directly on the tank bottom, anyway, NOT on the sand. You CAN put egg crate, or other material, under your rock, but it's not necessary, at all. Your tank will be just fine, with rock sitting on the bottom, as long as it's stable.

As for removing your sand, with only a shallow sand bed, you really don't run much of a risk of causing any problems. Siphon it out, during a couple water changes, and you're good to go. Since you're have trouble getting ALL of it out, after you've removed all you can, put a canister filter on the tank, with a micron cartridge, to catch the sand that's suspended in the water column. Then, keep the sand suspended, in the water column, with the use of power heads. It'll get caught by the filter cartridge.

Pretty much all you needed to know right there. No need to suffer the RC
(not that I advocate BB that is. Shame to lose the surface area for bacteria )

 

[jrgilles]

frankie,

Right now the sand is blown into piles, can't keep it spread very uniformly with the tunze running. I was thinking since it was just piling up inside the rockwork, I was better removing it and then I could turn up the flow even more.

Think I'm better off leaving the flow turned down and letting the sand distribute itself however? Not really having sand storm issues, just a mixture of bare spots and piles.

Was thinking it would be more beneficial to pull the sand and up the flow. Maybe not though? Right now my 2Xtunze powerheads are way at the top of the tank. Not seeing any dead spots though.

Not to turn this into a bare bottom vs. sand bed debate....

 

[Peppie]

I find it ALOT easier to keep the bottom of the tank clean without the sand. You can not get a siphon under the rock to clean the sand. You have to move the rock, With the barebottom you just blow it out with a powerhead.

 

[Frankie]

frankie,

Right now the sand is blown into piles, can't keep it spread very uniformly with the tunze running. I was thinking since it was just piling up inside the rockwork, I was better removing it and then I could turn up the flow even more.

Think I'm better off leaving the flow turned down and letting the sand distribute itself however? Not really having sand storm issues, just a mixture of bare spots and piles.

Was thinking it would be more beneficial to pull the sand and up the flow. Maybe not though? Right now my 2Xtunze powerheads are way at the top of the tank. Not seeing any dead spots though.

Not to turn this into a bare bottom vs. sand bed debate....

Yeah, I was not trying to start that debate either. It's all personal preference I guess. Both ways work. I have gone both ways and found the shallow sand bed to be my preferred method for a reef system. Not just for looks but for the surface area for bacteria also. I found my animals did better also having sand. They just looked healthier. I think the more natural the environment looks go's a long way in animal health.
Does the Tunze come with an adapter to narrow out the flow like the Corallia's? I always drill my tanks and have little experience with the new power heads. Though I hear the Tunze is the way to go

 

[Krish]

When I went bare bottom I just took off my pants :lol:. Naw, I removed my shallow sand bed over the course of about two weeks or so. Didn't have much sand so it didn't have much impact on anything.

Here is a link to what I use on the bottom of all of my bare bottom tanks. Pretty decent stuff http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f14/info-pvc-board-59909/

 

[returnofsid]

The bottom of your tank is not going to crack. Even with sand, your rock should be sitting directly on the glass, for stability. Tank bottoms are typically tempered.

 

[Chichas01]

I'm curious what Tunze powerheads you are running and where you have them placed ( pics??). I don't have a sugar fine SB (I have the CarribSea Indo-Pacfic sand. Some of it is really fine mixed with larger particles), but I do run 2 Vortech MP 20's and a couple Tunze 6025's behind my rock work in my 80 gallon tank. The Tunze's are only a couple inches at best off the sand bed and point slightly upward. Could placement be your issue and not power?

 

[jrgilles]

Definately could be positioning. Haven't moved them around much, as the magnets that hook them on are crazy strong and a bit scary.

I can snap a pic later for you, but here is a description.

2XTunze 6101 (with 15V jumper in instead of the 24V) Positioned at the top back corner of the side glass panels, about 6 inches below the surface aimed out at ~45 degrees. There is also a Tunze 6055 nano (also controllable) centered on one of the side panels aimed into the rockwork.

In the middle of the tank, there is a pile of sand where it has collected as the current has moved it away from the front edge of the tank.

 

[jrgilles]

Think I'll play around with the powerheads this weekend. Bump them up to 24V and see what happens. Maybe I'll try to leave the sand in for the time being, or just syphon or redistribute the piles and see if I can get it to work without removing all or much of the sand.

 

[Chichas01]

If you go to 24v isn't that full power? That will be more than 200X turn over :shock: for a 75 is your signature info is correct. Might blow the fish right out of the tank :lol:

 

[Krish]

If you go to 24v isn't that full power? That will be more than 200X turn over :shock: for a 75 is your signature info is correct. Might blow the fish right out of the tank :lol:

I did exactly 104X turnover in my 38 gal and the fish and corals loved it! Sand would never survive! . I posted this pic a few times before, but here is the flow coming out my top closed loop outputs. I had the same thing down low as you see up top in this picture plus a 950 gph return which isn't on in this picture as I was changing out the lockline nozzle at the time and test running the closed loop.

200X sounds like fun!!!!

 

[jrgilles]

Well, rearranged some rock work to facilitate better flow. Moved a few rocks from my DT to sump or fuge.

Gonna let this ride for a bit and see what I think. Might experiment with full speed on the tunze in the future, but maybe you are right that it is a bit of overkill (but I do think it would be pretty cool)

I'll see how this plays out with the sand in for now.....

 

[dailydriven911]

I went bb a couple years back as I had the same problem you did too much flow from the vortechs. The biggest thing I noticed was the corals lost a bit of their color and lightened up. I tried feeding more and nothing changed. Everything was thriving just not as well with the sand imo. You will also have piles of detritus in the low flow areas that build up. I just used a turkey baster to suck it up. Good luck!