Trying to figure out what I need to get started

[raprgz@comcast.]

So today I purchased the following items from a friend that had a saltwater fish system

90 gallon, 1/2" glass tank
black stand with two cabinets and matching canopy
flourenscent lights (like in a overhead balast, marine tubes)
wet-dry "bio ball" trickle filter system with pump
ebo-jager heater
large air pump with 2 air stones


I dont have any directions on how to get this stuff up and going..

What I would like to do is build a reef tank but I dont know where to start.

I would like to build some kind of refugium system that would allow a natural filtration and to grow frags, add new fish, etc. but I am not quite sure what I need to add or replace to make that happen effectiantly.

Currently I dont have the tank put together at all or have anything planned to start with but I would love some ideas on where to go from here.

 

[user 26995]

Heres a good place to start with the sump/refugium system.
http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

 

[bigblue141]

First off, get rid of the Airstones. Air bubbles greatly decrease the visibility of your tank.

Get a nice sump.

You're going to want at least 900 GPH of water flow in your tank for corals, more if you're going to deal with stoneys.

You should be able to light your 90 fine if you have 4 48" T12 VHO'S or 6 T5 HO's. You'll probably have to keep stoneys up towards the top to get good growth out of them.

 

[raprgz@comcast.]

So I purchased an evolution 500 skimmer but I am not exactly sure about the plumbing.

I have a 20gal wet sump box already that was created with bio-balls but I am going to try and use this box for now. I dont exactly understand how the protein skimmer comes into all of this..

I havent figured out the suction portion of the weir, does this simply go into the drain box in a sump? besides that how is the skimmer getting fed water? do I need a second pump to feed water to it? my sump can either be in the tank to sump portion or it can be outside of it getting fed (saves space being in sump?) but how do I rig the water feed??

Are there any good pieces for links with step by step plumbing instructions? I would like to understand where I need to use T's, Ball valves and such aswell.

 

[Burke]

Sorry I can't help with the skimmer, but if you do a web search for it or search on this site or other reef sites you should be able to get the info you need, or see others folks setups that will help.

I cannot stress enough to do research before you jump in. Trust me it will save you time and money in the long run.

BTW, welcome to RF.

 

[Skimmy]

So I purchased an evolution 500 skimmer but I am not exactly sure about the plumbing.

I have a 20gal wet sump box already that was created with bio-balls but I am going to try and use this box for now. I dont exactly understand how the protein skimmer comes into all of this..

I havent figured out the suction portion of the weir, does this simply go into the drain box in a sump? besides that how is the skimmer getting fed water? do I need a second pump to feed water to it? my sump can either be in the tank to sump portion or it can be outside of it getting fed (saves space being in sump?) but how do I rig the water feed??

Are there any good pieces for links with step by step plumbing instructions? I would like to understand where I need to use T's, Ball valves and such aswell.

aww jeez... i hate to see noobs get stuck with this skimmer...miserable little POS.

my best suggestions to you are as follows...

1. forget about your bio balls in your sump just take them out completely.
reclaim that space in your sump and use it to house a carbon or media reactor, skimmer or refugium, depending on the sump design.
you might just be better starting from scratch with a cheap rubbermaid container or used glass tank.
you are going to want 1 lb per gallon of live rock for biological filtration.
look on the livestock for sale adds to find some cheap used live rock.

2. sell or give away the etss evolution 500, you will require a 900gph pump(80-100watts) to drive the injector for minimal performance, and you will have to take it apart every 3-4 days to clean the colletion cup in order to keep it working properly.

there are many inexpensive in-sump skimmers that will work well for 90g
SWC 160 cone
SWC extreme 200
Bubble Magus bm150
octopus nw 200
Eshopps psk 200

any of those will kick the evo500's butt

 

[bigblue141]

There is also a company called Vertex that you pull out of the box, drop it in your sump, plug it in and off you go skimming. All controls are external. Nice set up, and seems really easy to use.

I 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and on and on about the bio-balls... Get rid of them. They will only cause GIANT problems later down the road.

 

[raprgz@comcast.]

I think I can simply return it.. I bought it from them as used equipment..

any recommendations as to where I should look at buying any of the for mentioned products?

I plan on going to a salt store in bellevue over by computer stop over the weekend.. Ive heard good things about them from other hobbiests..

 

[iroll253]

I think I can simply return it.. I bought it from them as used equipment..

any recommendations as to where I should look at buying any of the for mentioned products?

If your willing to wait to invest or have the money i would suggest Swc skimmers. at saltwaterconnection.com Or eshopps skimmers. As for the sumps keep looking around the for sale section as you continue to do research on the hobby. The more you read and understand everything the easier and less pain full it will be. Plus we are hear to help.

The basics for a tank would be
Flow or current in the tank
Lighting
Natural filtration as in using a refugium
Mechanical filtration as in using a skimmer and running a media reactor with carbon in it.
Also your going to want a nice marine test kit if you plan on keeping corals measuring ammonia, ph, nitrates, phosphates, kh or alkalinity, calcium and magnesium

I would get rid of the bio balls and air stones

 

[Skimmy]

There is also a company called Vertex that you pull out of the box, drop it in your sump, plug it in and off you go skimming. All controls are external. Nice set up, and seems really easy to use.

I 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and on and on about the bio-balls... Get rid of them. They will only cause GIANT problems later down the road.

unfortunately, vertex skimmers suck... resun brand pumps are worthless

 

[Skimmy]

I think I can simply return it.. I bought it from them as used equipment..

any recommendations as to where I should look at buying any of the for mentioned products?

I plan on going to a salt store in bellevue over by computer stop over the weekend.. Ive heard good things about them from other hobbiests..

definately dont waste your money in that store in bellevue,
the best store in the state hands down is barrier reef aquariums in north renton,
maybe 5 minutes further down the freeway past bellevue.

for the equipment I mentioned here are some links:
the best bang for your buck is probably the SWC extreme 200 or SWC 160 cone
http://www.shop.reeffiltration.com/...EF8C3AD7E7C947A9BC8.qscstrfrnt01?categoryId=2
http://www.marinesolutionsinc.com/catalog/Protein-Skimmers-Bubble-Magus/c22_84/index.html
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...duct_Code=CV-OCT-NWB-200&Category_Code=oct-nw
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...Product_Code=ES-PSK-200&Category_Code=es-skim

do you happen to know the type of fluorescent lighting you have? is it standard output bulbs? VHO, or t5ho?
if it's VHO ot t5 you will probably be fine, but if it's standard output(40 watts per 4' tube) it should be replaced.
the type and power of your lights will all totally depend on the type of corals you wish to keep.
there's a massive variety of type, price and quality.

check these out for lights:
http://shop.aquatraders.com/Odyssea-48in-4x54W-T5-HO-Light-Fixture-Pro-Series-p/52211.htm
http://shop.aquatraders.com/Odyssea-48in-500W-Metal-Halide-System-p/54224.htm
http://shop.aquatraders.com/Odyssea-48in-Metal-Halide-System-with-T5-HO-p/54231.htm
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...de=SL-960160&Category_Code=Sunlight-tek-elite
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...oduct_Code=FI-DL-4854&Category_Code=Finnex-T5
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...uct_Code=GM-250-263-K&Category_Code=Giesemann


you will want 30x the total display volume for flow for soft corals and LPS, 50x-100x for SPS.
one of these powerheads will provide you with 3000gph, or just over 30x in your tank, and should be set up in a gyre configuration:
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...D&Product_Code=CV-202B&Category_Code=OctoPump

 

[Skimmy]

if you can afford, these would be better for flow;


http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...duct_Code=T6125.000&Category_Code=Tunze_pumps

or
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...=PROD&Product_Code=ET-MP40W&Category_Code=Eco

 

[raprgz@comcast.]

Im trying to go the natural route.. its what Ive been told to do for almost 10 years.. but most people I see with refuges also have a wet-dry sump & protein skimmer.. Ive seen a few with built in carbon reactors aswell as UV sterilizers.

I purchased 2 of the OctoPumps
what type of configuration are you talking about? do I need to purchase the additional wavemaker cycling machine for that?

Ill probably pick up the SWC Extreme 200, I dont think I want to wait until the 15th for the cone.. I also like the NAC7 but I dont really know what I am looking at in skimmers besides what they say there volumes are.. so your opinions are must more valuable to me than my guess

Ill check my lights when I get home.. I highly doubt there T5s or VHOs.. I was thinking about purchasing a halid balast just because I like them... but I am all for what ever will work the best for my tank. I havent decided anything in particuler that I want to grow in my tank but I would like to do both hard corals.. soft corals and fish... I want to be able to simulate an ocean experience for my soon to be pets.

I have operated fresh water & saltwater tanks before.. just not to this scale or the "hopefully" pure performance that I am hoping to see all of this work do. About 15 years ago I have a 50gal salt tank w/ tangs & a lion fish (dude lived forever!) but I want something that is a little larger and alot more stable than that tank was..

I am going to be removing the bioballs & plates within my 20g sump box this weekend and hopefully replacing it with a larger box for insump skimmer & fuge tandem. If I really need to have 90lbs of live rock (seems intense) than I am going to need something much larger then what I have. I was planning to use live rubble / sand for filtration w/ some form of algae... seems cheaper to go this route then 90lbs of liverock @ something like 16.99 per pound.

thank you for all of the great advice so far!

 

[balogh03]

90lbs of liverock @ something like 16.99 per pound.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/brs-mixed-dry-aquarium-eco-rock.html

If the rock is completely dry, 50-60lbs will be like buying 90lbs of cured rock. And even if it is still not enough you will a great start and you will have room to collect your hand picked "show" pieces of rock.
Good luck

-augustus

 

[Skimmy]

well, you pretty much ARE going the natural route...just adding a skimmer to the mix, and TRUST ME, you want both items in your sump.
the extreme 200 is an excellent skimmer, 1000-1200lph air injection for 25watts, roughly enough skimming power for say 200g, so perfect for a 90g. it will come with a pinwheel and a meshwheel, for a 90g and ease of use, just use the pinwheel.

with 2 of those octo powerheads doing 3000gph each, you can either set them up as a gyre that switches every 8 hours(those powerheads arent ment to be on a wave timer switching on and off every few minutes, but once every 8 hours or so should be fine, and mimics the tidal flows as well). or if you wind up doing alot of SPS, then it would be better to leave them both on and pushing water the same direction. you could put them in the back behind the rockwork pushing across the back wall, then bouncing around to the front.

here is a youtube vid of a reef tank with the powerheads set up in a gyre(thanks Jake!!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz15R0gVMPA
it's done with multipe powerheads and is a massive tank, but you'll get the idea.
that dry rock is perfect by the way...then you can just scoop up a few pieces of live to seed the dead rock.

 

[luke33]

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/brs-mixed-dry-aquarium-eco-rock.html

If the rock is completely dry, 50-60lbs will be like buying 90lbs of cured rock. And even if it is still not enough you will a great start and you will have room to collect your hand picked "show" pieces of rock.
Good luck

-augustus

^^ Agreed 100%. I would get the dry rock, no worry of infecting your tank with any nuisance pest.

 

[roblou]

+1 BRS dry rock! I used it in my new cube and couldn't be happier.

Good luck & have fun!

Rob

 

[raprgz@comcast.]

I take it that purchasing it off of that site is Qty by the lb?

how much space is 60lbs of dry rock going to require within a sump??

so SWC Extreme 200, 60lbs of BRS dry rock.

I still need a submergable return pump?

plumbing setup

then once I have gotten all of this stuff and its plumbed I need to know what to do to make the saltwater and how to stabalize the tank.

Ive been reading about breaking in skimmers and such aswell... what does this mean?

 

[bigblue141]

To make salt water:

- Buy a big bucket or bin (I use a 32 gallon)
- Fill with RO/DI water
- Pour in salt until you reach your desired salinity
- Place a maxi jet power head in the bottom of the bucket
- Let power head stir water for at least 24 hours
- Check salinity again, place in aquarium

You can use an external pump if you want, but submersables are usually cheaper. (I like the RIO HF series)

Stabilizing your tank:

"Stabilizing" is the same as letting your tank cycle. Put in your sand, LR and fill with water. Run tank for a few weeks. You should get an algae bloom or two during this time period. I've read on some sites to put pure ammonia to allow your bacteria colonies to start. Check your water. When Nitrates, Nitrites, and Ammonia all read zero (usually a couple of weeks or so) then your tank has gone through a cycle and should be ready for one or two small animals.

I take it that purchasing it off of that site is Qty by the lb?

how much space is 60lbs of dry rock going to require within a sump??

so SWC Extreme 200, 60lbs of BRS dry rock.

I still need a submergable return pump?

plumbing setup

then once I have gotten all of this stuff and its plumbed I need to know what to do to make the saltwater and how to stabalize the tank.

Ive been reading about breaking in skimmers and such aswell... what does this mean?

 

[balogh03]

I take it that purchasing it off of that site is Qty by the lb?

how much space is 60lbs of dry rock going to require within a sump??

so SWC Extreme 200, 60lbs of BRS dry rock.

I still need a submergable return pump?

plumbing setup

then once I have gotten all of this stuff and its plumbed I need to know what to do to make the saltwater and how to stabalize the tank.

Ive been reading about breaking in skimmers and such aswell... what does this mean?

I would only put about 5lbs or so in your sump because of the size for now. The rest will just go into the display. A lot of people like external pumps but submersibles are much more simple and reliable in my opinion. Mag drives have been around the longest and I have never had one stop working. I have also heard great things about quiet one. Try to stay away from Rio's if you can, everyone I have had have been junk. You will also want an extra little heater in you "mixing" barrel as the water going in should be the same temp as water going out.
Hope that helps

-augustus