trying to get phosphates down what should i do

[jeepfish]

i started my reef with tap water and then went to ro/di on my first water change and have been doing 25% ro/di water changes every week there after and my phosphates are still at 0.5 ppm and now i have some green hair alge growing. so how do i lower my phosphates and what critter should i get to help with the hair alge. i already have 4 Astraeas and 4 Cerith snals 2 scarlet leg hermit crabs who all do kinda ok on the short stuff but dont go near the long stuff. what should i do

 

[Raamiah]

You should get a phosphate reactor like the Three Little Fishies 150 and some GFO. That media targets phosphates. You'll also need to get a small pump and some tubing but that should help solve the issue. Good luck.

 

[Krish]

I agree...The Two Little Fishies Phosban reactor is a nice piece to add to your setup. I ran mine with the Julian Sprung's phosphate media and I was happy with it. The algae will reman as long as it's food source is available and if this is a newly setup tank, it's all a part of the cycling process that we all go through. With any algae, you remove it's food source and it goes away. Critters can help a bit by eating it up, but typically this only masks the problem. Also, keep in mind that critters poop as well so although they will remove some algae, they will poop right back in the tank adding waste so I wouldn't add too many in there. Just give it time...If you can manually remove any of it without releasing spores back into the tank, it will help a bit in exporting the bound up nutrients out of your system. It's like how a refugium works with an algae in it like chaeto as an example. You allow it to grow which it does by binding up the excess nutrients made available to it in the water column (nitrates, phosphates etc) and then you trim it back periodically which exports these bound up nutrients out of the system. As your tank matures and finds it's balance, the algae will grow less and less until eventually you won't see any signs of it. Just keep up with your tank maintenance and water changes. Any filter floss, sponges etc should be either changed or cleaned atleast every 3 days. If not, the waste it traps will just degrade water quality seeing it is still sitting in your system which will shoot up phosphate and nitrate levels.

Good luck!

 

[jeepfish]

thanks for the help guys but my tank is an all in one, 14 gal biocube to be specific. so i dont have a back to hang on or a sump to plumb it with so how would i hook it up? and being so small is there anything else i could do to lower phosphates?

 

[Somethings Fishy]

i would try and figure out a way to make the phosban reactor work with your cube, even if you make a ledge on the back for it to hang on it will dramatically reduce your phosphates and will be thankful for the addition

 

[kevnkev]

I'm not familiar with biocubes, but does it have something like a filter area in the back separate from the main tank area? I have a hang-on filter on my tank and shove a little mesh baggie of phosban in that to help keep phosphates down. If I remember right when you buy a little tub of phosban it comes with the baggie. You want to stick it in a place where water will be flowing (gently) through the phosban. Probably not quite as effective as an honest-to-goodness reactor, but it has worked like a charm for me.

 

[iroll253]

Not to hate on the TLF reactor but IMO the Bulk reef supply reactor is way more user friendly. Best way to battle hair algae is manual removal and water changes with 0 tds water coming from your ro system.

 

[Dmcbride]

I'm not familiar with biocubes, but does it have something like a filter area in the back separate from the main tank area? I have a hang-on filter on my tank and shove a little mesh baggie of phosban in that to help keep phosphates down. If I remember right when you buy a little tub of phosban it comes with the baggie. You want to stick it in a place where water will be flowing (gently) through the phosban. Probably not quite as effective as an honest-to-goodness reactor, but it has worked like a charm for me.

I've done it that way too. My 14 gal cube is pretty new too, I have mainly used water out of 33 to start it, but it still had to cycle some. I personally don't use any of their filter media you can buy specifically for the bio cube. I also have a 3rd light retrofitted into mine so I can use one column as a refugium with cheto in it, the second column has live rock only part way up with enough room if I need to put in a bag for phosphate removal or carbon I can. I am mainly relying on about 20% water changes weekly with RO water. Like I said I haven't had it going all that long either, but so far so good.

 

[jeepfish]

kevnkev i think i will give that a try before moding out the cube for a reactor

 

[jeepfish]

so went out and bought a bag of Phos-Zorb throwing it in tonight so hopfully that will take care of it but if it does not will look in to a reactor. what else will a phosphate reactor do for my tank other then lowering my phosphate (as far as filtering)?

 

[Krish]

Nothing more. It's simply a media reactor (ie a place to hold media of any kind). Some people use them to rub carbon even. Water is pumped underneath the media forcing it's way through it, but when you run one of these reactors you have to a small pump throttled back enough to where the media doesn't tumble. If it does, then it will just destroy the media so keep in mind, if you do go with a phosban reactor, you need to make sure you have enough room for a small pump as well like a maxijet. The new Two Little Fishies phosban reactors are much easier to use than the old one. The old ones used basically plastic screws and nuts to hold on the lid. The new ones just twist open like a thermos. The media usually lasts about 3 months before needing to be changed if you go with the Julian Sprungs formula and use their recommended dosage. Also, the reactor can sit internally or externally.


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[Scooterman]

i started my reef with tap water and then went to ro/di on my first water change and have been doing 25% ro/di water changes every week there after and my phosphates are still at 0.5 ppm and now i have some green hair alge growing. so how do i lower my phosphates and what critter should i get to help with the hair alge. i already have 4 Astraeas and 4 Cerith snals 2 scarlet leg hermit crabs who all do kinda ok on the short stuff but don't go near the long stuff. what should i do

Critters don't magically get rid of problems as they can poop just as much as they eat, remember that. Introducing a media reactor, or even a sock with media in it to help absorb phosphates will help some but you have to look at the source also. lets think, new tank, tap water maybe, LR sure, too much feeding certainly. Physically removing the nutrients that cause the on growth of algae and higher phosphates will eventually clear up the tank. From the start your rock probably was a source, improper circulation may cause build up of nutrients, you know in those hard to reach spots. It won't go away right away but this is no means to tear it all down, give it time, deal with the algae and continue cleaning what you can, improve water movement to prevent accumulations and stick to it. Your tank may not be beautiful for a while but in the long run it will be great once you get her in control. These is no one cure or rapid fix, I would do a large WC every month until you get it under control, try for about 50% or more even.

Just my 2 cents! :loco:

 

[jeepfish]

Nothing more. It's simply a media reactor (ie a place to hold media of any kind). Some people use them to rub carbon even.
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awesome thats exactly what i wanted to hear, i dident know if i could only use it as a phosphate reactor or if i could use different media(i know im kinda dumb some times lol) thanks krish

Critters don't magically get rid of problems as they can poop just as much as they eat, remember that. Introducing a media reactor, or even a sock with media in it to help absorb phosphates will help some but you have to look at the source also. lets think, new tank, tap water maybe, LR sure, too much feeding certainly. Physically removing the nutrients that cause the on growth of algae and higher phosphates will eventually clear up the tank. From the start your rock probably was a source, improper circulation may cause build up of nutrients, you know in those hard to reach spots. It won't go away right away but this is no means to tear it all down, give it time, deal with the algae and continue cleaning what you can, improve water movement to prevent accumulations and stick to it. Your tank may not be beautiful for a while but in the long run it will be great once you get her in control. These is no one cure or rapid fix, I would do a large WC every month until you get it under control, try for about 50% or more even.

Just my 2 cents! :loco:

thanks for the info. iknow theres no quick fix in this hobby but i was just looking for a fix and after your advise i took another look around at the had to see/reach spots and i do have some detrius building up back there. what should i do about this? cant really get in there with a siphon. should i point a power head in? also i know how detrimental over feeding can be and so i try to feed as little as i can, i feed my clown a very small pinch of flake food twice a week and then i spot feed my duncan mysis once a week which feeds the clown as well. does this seem reasonable? thanks scooterman

 

[mojoreef]

Phosphate come into the tank via two ways, one is that YOU add it and the other is from P being released by the melting of sand and rock. 99% of the time it is from the person adding it to the tank via food mostly, but also additives, make up water and similar. Couple this with not dealing with the left overs and a problem occurs. One also has to remember that when you add a media reactor your only dealing with the P that is dissolved and is in the water column and happens to pass through it. So not really a wide net to deal with the problem.

So what I tell folks with P issues is to find out where it is coming from and then deal with that. So test the food you are adding, if you add flake or anything else crush some up (allowing it to dissolve) in SW in a glass and test it. Test your additives the same way, alot of additives use glucose as a carrier, test your make up water. Then start testing the water in your tank, do a test in the main water column to get a base number and then test the water that sits on top of the sand and rock and see if that number is higher.

So if you tests come back high on the foods and or additives do some research on using a different source that is not high in P. If you test your water and the water has a higher reading down on the top of the sand and rock then you need to clean it, as in do some syphoning of the top layer of the sand (1/2inch) to remove waste and general detritus, Also put a sock filter on your drain line and take a powerhead to your rock work to blow off any detritus that may have built up on top of the rock. If you have P coming in from your make up water then look to add a filter system for it.

Hope it helps

Mike

 

[jeepfish]

Thanks mojo i hadent even thought about testing my food or additives. by the way the bag of Phos-Zorb i added afew days ago is working great my phosphates are already down to .25 after just a few days and hair algae is also just about cut in half and still receding thanks everyone:bounce:

 

[mojoreef]

What folks have to remember about P and N to some extent is that you can have a ton of it not really be able to test for it. When food and detritus, along with what is naturally released from your LR and LS just sits on top of the two substraights if will be another form of P and N, but has not dissloved yet, BUT is still available for algae and such to take advantage of, and will be a constant feeder for the two nutrients into your tank. Phos-zorb and even test kits only measure and deal with 1 form of the many forms of P.


Mojo

 

[Krish]

If you check the articles on the homepage and scan through them, there is one mojo did on phosphates called, "The dreaded P word". Nice read! If I get to a pc, I'll send a link.


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[Fracks]

I hope the phossorb worked. If not, I have an old hang on the back media reactor if you are interested. I find that just being patient, doing your water changes, not overfeeding and keeping some kind of phosban/phossorb etc going, generally does the trick!

 

[Aquanaut]

Critters to have that help are the Rabbit nudi and lettuce nudi and queen conch. If lighting is adequate, 3"+ derasas and molusks consume phosphate 24/7

 

[Krish]

Here is the discussion thread that goes with the article I spoke about that Mojo put together.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f14/look-dreaded-p-word-60002/#post611239