Water movement without closed loop

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NeuroDoc

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Silverdale, WA
I am in the process starting a new tank. For a number of reasons I do not want to create a closed loop system. So that leaves me with needing to create flow. I want to put some SPS in my tank, but will also have LPS and softies, along with a few fish. I am very intrigued with the Vortech pumps, but also know that Tunze makes high quality powerheads as well. I am pretty sure I will go with either of these. Is there any reason at all I should choose one over the other? Are there any reasons to consider something else, say a wavemaster pro with 4 maxijets or seios?

Thanks
 
I would say if you can afford it go with the tunze, if they are too pricey for you then maybe step down to the sieo's.. you can get 3,000gph movement with 2 1500's for about $150.00 thats a good way to go. that is the way I am upgrading the flow in my 125 reef is with 2 sieo 1500's...

Matt
 
I say go with the vortech, they are much easier to control. With the vortech you can also change speed, if say there's too much in one area, just turn the vortech down a bit.

Control with a red sea wavemaster is perfect. :)

-Josh-:cool:
 
The Prblem with Tunze is thier size as well as the Sieo's. I have yet to see a Vortec in person, But I do see the limitations with it. If you want in corner or facing down then your screwed. but for straight out flow it rocks from all I heard. TAAM is also comming out with controller for the Sieo's It will have a Night Mode and other things to be more like Tunze controllers. If Size doesnt matter then I would go either SIeo or Tunze. But the end result is your want. All the above do thier job its a matter of what you want to spend.
 
I ran both Seio's and Tunzes and was happy with both. I haven't tried the Vortech's, but have heard mixed reviews on them so couldn't say. In any event, if money isn't an option, I'd go with the Tunzes, but if it is, then the Seio's can do the job. They have Seio's that put out 2600 gph for about $70.:)
 
My personal choice here would be 4 MJ900's with the impeller to propeller mod performed.

Then I would use a 2 or 4 channel wave controler to drive them.

Should be well over 4000gph of randomized turbulent flow useing very little energy.

Cost on that setup shouldnt exceed $80 for everything.
 
liveforphysics said:
My personal choice here would be 4 MJ900's with the impeller to propeller mod performed.

Then I would use a 2 or 4 channel wave controler to drive them.

Should be well over 4000gph of randomized turbulent flow useing very little energy.

Cost on that setup shouldnt exceed $80 for everything.

How many gph ea? What prop?

Don
 
liveforphysics said:
Should be well over 4000gph of randomized turbulent flow useing very little energy.
Luke, forgive me if I seem dense but...Mabye I misread something or don't understand your mod suggestion. How does 4xMJ900 (230 GPH each) work their way from 920 GPH to 4000?

Cheers
Steve
 
steve-s said:
Luke, forgive me if I seem dense but...Mabye I misread something or don't understand your mod suggestion. How does 4xMJ900 (230 GPH each) work their way from 920 GPH to 4000?

Cheers
Steve

www.mjmods.com but I cant get anything close to that with any of the props listed on their site.

Don
 
Don I did it with a ac but need to start a MJ this weekend. I ordered the center cap from there and will have one running next week. my ac70 is decent but still would use the stream over it. It really wont power a prop as well as mj1200.

Ideal flow a wavysea attached to a centerbrace spinning a 360 with a 6080 stream.(the atachment is still not there yet)
 
bradreef said:
Don I did it with a ac but need to start a MJ this weekend. I ordered the center cap from there and will have one running next week. my ac70 is decent but still would use the stream over it. It really wont power a prop as well as mj1200.

Ideal flow a wavysea attached to a centerbrace spinning a 360 with a 6080 stream.(the atachment is still not there yet)

I tried the 1200 and 900 with all their props. Since there was no way to test gph. I just hung a chunk of plastic in the tank. With the tunze 6k at 50% it would hold the plastic almost horizontal. The mj's would barely move it 45 degrees

Don
 
Steve, Don- Some guy measured ~1300gph from his maxijet 900 mod. Do I remember the propeller he used? No, I'm sorry I dont. From my fluiddynamics experience, I can tell you that the inlet slit shape design is going to be of equal if not greater importance than the propeller P/D.

For those of you who must be thinking "why would any manufacturere use an impellor for a pump if a propellor works so much better?"
Impellers are capable of high heads, as well as omnidirectional rotation capable.

For in-tank circulation, head becomes irrelivant, and with the clever way of passivey ensureing proper rotation direction, the directional propeller problem is also solved.

Just playing around, I put a 2.75" RC plane propeller suspended by simple hole /bearings in the end caps of a chunk of 3" PVC. the PVC had a large notch section taken out of the bottom and top right above the end caps. I powered the shaft with direct coupleing to an RC car motor connected to a moddified computer powersupply.
So, the PVC end gets dipped down in the water, the motor obviously stayed out of the tank at the top.
It was just cheese dicked together as a temporary experiment, but I would guess it was easily exceeding 10,000gph (yes, I realize that means 3gal/s) when i cranked things up a bit. Propeller flex was the biggest limiter I was encountering besides trying to keep in aimed in a mannor to keep water in the tank. The amount of energy it was useing was very minimal for the amount of flow it was provideing.

And yeah, that sort of circulation device would have the same sorts of bennifits of the vortech with the motor's heat being outside the tank and yadda yadda...

A few of you guys allready know, but I threw together a couple monster sized propeller powerheads magnetically coupled to the outside of the tank just for experiments. One with a 10" wooden RC plane prop, which required a 12" acrilic disk with 8 very strong neodimium magnets to keep things coupled to the motor on the outside. Basically pointless for normal sized aquarium circulation needs, as I just ended up makeing a huge mess consisting of at least a 3rd of the poor 55gal frag tanks water being on the floor, and many frags torn and floating around. I might mention that the drive motor I was useing for this experiment was the dewalt 1.2hp diegrinder I use for porting cylinder heads... The power limiter was the mag coupeling.


Anyways... I'm not interested in pump GPH anymore. Its about turbulance, and its about constructive flow patterns. I'm in the process of moving to tacoma right now, and when I get settled in, I will invite Don over to check out the newest innovation that my 90 will be useing. I'm not going to give the idea away yet (though Mojo helped me think of it on the phone), but its something I've never seen anyone else use. And of course it maintains my key design features of low power consumption, minimal water heating, minimal space in tank wasted, maximum flow, and no need to turn a nice tank into swiss-cheese. ;)



Anyways, for something you can throw together in a couple hours on a weekend, 4 MJ900s modded properly and the cheapest ebay wave controler you can find will result in exellent flow properties for minimal cost, with minimal downsides.
 
Don, with reguards to the plastic chunk deflection test, keep in mind that a spray nozzle on a garden hose might blow the plastic chunk across the room, while unrestricted it might gentlely nudge the plastic. In that example, the GPH on the unrestricted hose would be higher...

Now, as far as your perticular application goes, I have no idea, the tunez could have been pushing 10times the flow rate, or visa-versa.

The hose example above, and your experiment all just further push the issue that GPH is not something we should be putting emphasis on, as it really has no more relivance to your corals getting adquate water movement than saying the wattage of your lights relates to the amount of light the corals see.
 
sound interesting there Luke, I think your on to something and I believe you, however I would rather just spend 50 bucks on a seio and call it good:p

Matt
 
Thanks Matt, and I respect your position. Its the same position my GF and most normal people would take on things.

I get enjoyment from experimenting/tinkering/building/designing things. Most people just like to find something that works and stick with it, which seems pretty darn logical to me.
I just have this fetish for dorking around with things.
 
liveforphysics said:
Don, with reguards to the plastic chunk deflection test, keep in mind that a spray nozzle on a garden hose might blow the plastic chunk across the room, while unrestricted it might gentlely nudge the plastic. In that example, the GPH on the unrestricted hose would be higher...

A tunze does not produce a spray nozzle type pattern. You have to keep in mind all these little power head mods are to try and duplicate the flow pattern of a tunze. Once you duplicate the flow patters (the easy part) all there is left is gph. Alot of folks are claiming 2K gph out of a mj but no one is showing a actual test. In fact I'm pretty sure it cant even be done without some prett trick fluid dynamics measuring devices. I can say that for my kids 20g tank that the mod was a success. If I was trying to flow my 110 it would have been a complete flop.
Since a tunze 6k only puts out 1850 being throttled back 50% by the controller would be somewhere around 900 gpm. With the deflection test its pretty easy to see that the mj would only put out about half or less which would equate to some where from 3-500 gph. But like I said for a tiny tank they worked great.

Don
 

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