Which is more important?

[csababubbles]

Two options, which is better....

Honda Gas Generator
Pros: Will support fish indefinitely (gas powered)
Cons: Costs almost $1000 and have to be home to turn it on so if I am on vacation I am out of luck

Xpower Powersource Battery Backup
Pros: Less than $500 (half of generator) and switches on automatically so if I am away from home or vacation it will turn on automatically.
Cons: Will only power fish tank essentials for around 8 hrs (give or take an hour).

So which would be the smarter choice? I am only away on vacation 3 weeks a year and maybe a few weekends in between. So chances of power outage during vacation time is pretty slim so the battery makes sense but then again, power outages around here (nyc/nj) very rarely last more then few hours so the chance the battery back-up runs out of juice before power is restored is also slim.

So which would you pick and why?

 

[returnofsid]

I think you should look at the options of gas powered generators that have the ability to be wired in a way that they start up automatically in the event of a power failure. The You list as a Pro, the ability of the gas one to support fish indefinitely and the Con of the Battery one that it'll only support essentials for 8 hours. Keep in mind that if you're on vacation, you're gone more than 8 hours. Although you do address potential problem at the end. I suppose the Battery Back up would be much better than nothing. Don't you folks in your area have some potential chances of long lasting power outages in the winter?

 

[danno14]

Bubbles - Bear in mind that the first option, in order to be properly configured, would also need a gentran installed. This would make it a matter of hooking up and starting the generator instead of running extension cords all over. This would also add to the cost ($300-400 for the panel, plus install). You would also have to have someone monitor it for fuel and refill when needed. Usually the middle of the night, in a wind/rain/snow/hail storm. You get the idea

I evaluated the final net cost and opted for a Ngas standalone that runs everything I want. Pumps, Lights, furnace, fridge, etc. If/when the power is out, it starts up in 10-20 seconds and life continues as normal. The upfront cost is higher, but if you have an electrician and plumber as friends the install can be pretty reasonable. I helped with the plumbing and did the electric myself (= cheap ). It will also add to the value of the house to help offset the cost. You are more than welcome to pm me for more info if you wish. Rgds, Dan

 

[csababubbles]

Yea while portable power is ideally distributed through an installed transfer switch, its no problem using a smaller output portable generator to power essential fish equipment. I think your thinking of back-feeding which of course I will not be doing. Yes a transfer switch installed and connected to the generator would be ideal but then we're looking at a whole new budget with material and labor for installation. Then you also have to think if you setting up a whole system why not just get a larger generator so that it can power the rest of my house essentials like fridge, tv, etc. So now I'm spending another grand to get the 3000W generator or even more for bigger generators. Just seems like its going to end up being much more then what I really need, which is just to keep some fish equipment running for a few hours if the power goes out.

So with all this in mind, I made some calls and found a brand new 2000W Honda generator for a couple of hundred under retail. I'll get an extension cord and I'll be good to go.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Guess your decision has been made already, but just a comment...

The two options, in my opinion, are not a "this OR that" decision.

Obviously... unless you have your generator configured to come on automatically, someone needs to be there to turn it on. Until that happens, the battery backup can keep essential functions going. That's why I use both.

Around my place, power outages normally happen at night - when everyone is safe and warm and sleeping, and most likely NOT to notice the power it out. Having an automated backup system (whether it's a generator or a battery backup) to cover those hours until someone notices the power was out, or at least a battery powered alarm to let you know the power is out, is a really really good insurance policy in my book.

 

[burning2nd]

Honda Generator

depending where you live, you might also be able to have natual gas power for the Generator

 

[mfinn]

Generator.
A tank will survive for 4-5 hours (or more) without power. So for $500 your only getting 3 hours or so.
A generator will last as long as you need it.

 

[mfinn]

After a little more thought, I should say that my 240 will go 4-5 hours without power.

 

[csababubbles]

I thought of using both as well but after some calculations with my fellow engineers at work we discovered the manufacturer' promotional material is waaay off as to how long it can power equipment. We figured it could run my tanks for about one hour on a full charge. So if the power outage is a short duration the tanks would not even need the power. If the outage is a longer one then the battery backups won't do much before they run out of juice. I think the generator was my best choice. Can't wait to "rough it" camping with it too!

 

[csababubbles]

Kurt, you said "or at least a battery powered alarm to let you know the power is out, is a really really good insurance policy in my book."

what kind of product exists out there that can wake us up while we are sleeping if the power goes out? I think thats a great idea. For example, if I go to sleep at 10pm and the big snow puts out the electricity at 10:30 and I don't wake up till 9am the next morning, that would be over 10hrs without power and never even knew it!

 

[danno14]

I think you missed most of my point...(not including the one on the top of my head)

Honda Gas Generator Cons: Costs almost $1000

I'm spending another grand to get the 3000W generator or even more for bigger generators

I guess I am missing something.... we sell a 7000 watt (constant) Honda generator with electric start for $1049.99. It sounds like you may be looking at spending roughly the same for a 2000w unit? The reason I referred to the gentran, etc. is of the belief that you WOULD be getting a lot more wattage for the money you mentioned spending and to me it would make sense to make life easy with a Gentran.

you also have to think if you setting up a whole system why not just get a larger generator so that it can power the rest of my house essentials like fridge, tv, etc

... that's what I was trying to point out....and that it doesn't have to take all that much.... and that the value of your house will improve in the process. You can run pretty much all of that with a 7000w unit (see comment above).

All in all, the cheapest way is a small, gas generator such as what you speak (1500-2000w) to power the tank. You will still need someone to care for it when you are gone (hook it up, fill it), but can probably find it for the cost of 2-4 frags.

As for an alarm that will wake you up when the power goes out, find a cheap alarm clock that has a battery backup and screams when the power drops. Best of luck, it's good you are doing this now before your summer power peak!

Rgds,
D

 

[Scooterman]

If you can maintain a battery back-up system, for the purpose of a few hours loss of power you could set it up to run a PH or two & keep it simple, should go a long ways If you don't try to over do it, your tank should be plenty able to go hours with loss of complete power anyways. I test power loss on mine to make sure I don't get floods & everything is working as it should.
Running a generator requires someone there & is a longer term thing but you'll need fuel so if you go a real long term without you'll need to make sure you have enough gas/propane or whatever to run it long term, that may be a problem, not all gas stations will have power also.
The ultimate solution would be a whole house generator, natural gas powered but your looking into the thousands, we do that lots down here because of hurricanes, you could be down a week easy.
good luck!

 

[csababubbles]

Danno, where on earth do you work that sells a new 7000 watt honda generator for $1000? The most economical honda generators they have are the EG3500 (3500W @ $1400) and EN2500 (2500W @ $700), both which are more expensive and provide less power then then one you mentioned!? I though I got a pretty good deal by finding a authorized honda dealer that was having a big sale event. I think it was about $850 shipped. Anyways, I got the EU2000i model, which is a real quiet and light weight portable generator. Its flexibility and portability were important to me so I could use it besides as a home back-up. I'm trying to keep the whole power back-up plan as cheap as possible and installing a permanent house solution really adds to the cost and while is desirable, is still far from necessary. Also, I am home 49 of 52 week a year so chances are pretty high I will not be on vacation when it strikes. But even if I was, I could just get the person taking care of my tanks to power up the generator. I don't think there are any serious drawbacks.

Scooter, I understand my larger tanks could run for several hours without power but I have quite a few QT's and other small tanks (5 gallons-20 gallons) that could not last that long without power. So I think its real important. Yes I understand gas stations might be closed but I got lawnmowers and such so gas is always stored in my garage anyways.

 

[danno14]

Costco

 

[csababubbles]

I know Costco very well and as far as I could find, the cheapest generator they sell is the Cummins 2400 that is about $500 (I think it might be on sale this week though). Can't find a 7000W one for anything even remotely close to $1000. Anyways, the Cummins performance and costs are close enough to Honda that IMO its not even worth it considering Honda's reputation.

 

[mattleycrue76]

Can't wait to "rough it" camping with it too!

Just an FYI: Murphy's law predicts that this will be the precise time of the power outage

 

[csababubbles]

lol, good thing i was joking cause the closest I get to the wild is when I watch discovery channel ;-)

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Kurt, you said "or at least a battery powered alarm to let you know the power is out, is a really really good insurance policy in my book."

what kind of product exists out there that can wake us up while we are sleeping if the power goes out? I think thats a great idea. For example, if I go to sleep at 10pm and the big snow puts out the electricity at 10:30 and I don't wake up till 9am the next morning, that would be over 10hrs without power and never even knew it!

Somebody else nailed it... anything that makes obnoxious noises when the power goes out. My carbon monoxide detector "chirps" when it's on battery power. Really annoying. Annoying enough to go unplug it and yank the battery out! Kind of defeats the purpose.

My battery backup alarms when it switches over to battery power, so that's my alarm. While I agree that manufacturer's claims are optimistic at times, that unit you noted isn't overly hyped. The 400 model powered my tank (less lights, obviously) for 4+ hours a while back. That includes 2x 100W heaters, a Remora Pro skimmer, a couple HOB filter units, and a powerhead. If you used it for water movement only, it'd last 8-10 hours easy. Not sure why $500 for one keeps being tossed around. Either you're looking at ganging a bunch of them together or they've really gone up in price. I bought mine a couple years ago for something like $120 or so.

 

[csababubbles]

I checked out a bunch of tests that people conducted on them and the results were even less then our calculations. Crutchfield is a retailer that does a lot of hand on testing of many products it sells and even they published on their website run-times they got from the Powersource 400. They were able to run a 70 watt load for 5 hours. Don't know how you got 300+ watts to run for 4 hours.

The $500 price tag is buying the combination of a Powersource 1800 and a Powersource 400. You are correct, the Powersource can be found for $100. but for my needs I calculated the combo would work and thats how I got the $500 to compare it to a Honda Generator. Yes Honda is expensive compared to others but its just being used as an example.

 

[burning2nd]

the Cummins is a great Gen, but its a hell of a lot louder then the honda surly.

Honda's are known for the quietest gen's on the market