White spots, but I don't think it's ich.

[Sculpin]

I've had a hippo tang in quarantine for about 3 weeks and he was doing great for the first two weeks. I went out of town on business for 10 days and I suspect my wife didn't do a great job feeding him. I’m pretty sure she overfed the tank a bit with flake food, and didn’t bother giving him any seaweed. When I got home I noticed a bunch of bumps on his body. Many of the bumps are white, but they don’t look like ich. They are a bit larger than the ich I’ve dealt with, and they appear much more raised. I also don’t think it’s ich because it’s not on the fins and areas I typically have found ich in the past. They appear much more dense around the face, where there also appears to be some pot marks. I started feeding him seaweed again and did a 50% water change today. He is currently in a 40 gallon tank with a 6 line wrasse that doesn’t show any signs of this problem.

Any thoughts on what it might be and how to treat it? And if it turns out it is ich, I know exactly how to treat it and have a lot of experience.

I was planning to put him into my 180g tank next week, but will hold off until I get this sorted out.

Thanks for all the help, Sculpin

 

[Sculpin]

Trying to post a larger picture.

 

[Chichas01]

Does not look like ich, looks more like HLLE but I could be wrong. What are you feeding?

 

[NC2WA]

moved thread to Lee's forum where you will get a better response (from Lee)

 

[SaltwaterNoobs]

Does not look like ich, looks more like HLLE but I could be wrong. What are you feeding?

+1 That was my initial reaction, too. Looks like it could be the start of HLLE.

 

[user 26995]

I have to agree with the HLLE.
Make sure you are feeding good meaty foods, lots of seaweed and LOTS of vitamins.

Hes so cute. Hope he gets better for you.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

It is worse than just the obvious HLLE, the weakened fish has opportunistic secondary fungal or bacterial infections set in. Besides excellent water and good feeding, will require some medication. Use the opportunity available while still in QT, to give him lots of HUFA suplimented algae. Selcon, or similar brands work well. Lee will give a more specific diagnosis and treatment plan when he gets a chance.

 

[user 26995]

Its possible too that moving him to the 180 may reduce the stress on him and will help in his recovery. Are there other fish in the 180 yet?
Of course if he has a fungal infection, you want him treated for that first. Could you set up a larger QT?

 

[TJL]

I'm fairly certain that it is indeed ICH with secondary infections as my Powder Blue, Blochii and Kole Tangs just recently had similar appearances, though much worse. About 4-5 days into a Copper treatment they looked much better except Kole :rip: and perfectly healthy now after full treatment in QT. Personally I would not put him in your Display until another full QT cycle and treatment of 6-8 weeks, trust me it is not worth it!

Cheers, Todd

 

[Sculpin]

Thanks for all the advice. I agree that it's HLLE.

Unfortunately the 40g is the biggest I can do a QT tank, but it's pretty long so at least he has a little more room to swim back and forth. I currently have a powerhead in the tank to help keep the detritus off the ground, but I'm wondering if it might be stressing the fish?

I've been feeding him sheets of green marine algae, Ocean Nutrition Formula 1 & 2, sometimes soaked in selcon, mysis shrimp, and spirulina brine shrimp. But as I said, my wife was only feeding him Ocean Nutrition Formula 1 & 2 while I was gone.

Regarding the medication for secondary fungal or bacterial infections, any recommendations on what I can add the QT tank?

 

[mcoomer]

Keep feeding the mixed diet with supplements and check to ensure that you're water quality is good. Doesn't look like ich to me but doesn't look like HLLE either. Do you have a rock or big PVC to give the fish a place to hide and get out of the current? I'd keep doing what you're doing and do some small water changes to ensure water quality is maintained.

Mike

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Todd is correct, secondary infections are almost always post MI, which attacked the weakened fish. Next the bacteria/fungus kicks in. The fish needs treatment, and not moved into the display. With Tangs, always suspect Ich first...

I'm fairly certain that it is indeed ICH with secondary infections as my Powder Blue, Blochii and Kole Tangs just recently had similar appearances, though much worse. About 4-5 days into a Copper treatment they looked much better except Kole :rip: and perfectly healthy now after full treatment in QT. Personally I would not put him in your Display until another full QT cycle and treatment of 6-8 weeks, trust me it is not worth it!

Cheers, Todd

 

[leebca]

This is the first time I've seen this on a Tang. I've only seen this about four times now and three times it was on a bottom dweller fish and once on an Anemonefish. There is something about this affecting fishes that are on the bottom. The Hippo, for instance likes to cram itself under decorations and hide, on the bottom.

Anyway, this is an as yet unidentified parasite-type infection. It has been cured by using BOTH a treatment using Cupramine and FW dips. Follow the treatment given for fishes with Marine Ich given here, except choose to use the copper treatment: http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/curing-fish-marine-ich-50933/

Follow the treatment procedure given here except the dip is only to last 8 minutes: Fresh Water Fish Dip. Perfom 5 dips in total, one every other day. Dip water not to contain copper.

The difference between this parasite and MHLLE is that the parasite attack displays as bumps or raised nodules, instead of 'holes' symptomatic of MHLLE.

Good luck!

 

[Sculpin]

Turns out that the water change and an improved diet of seaweed (green & red with garlic) and Selcon added to meaty foods cleared the condition right up. The bumps on the body and white stuff on the face went away in about 24 hours.

Thanks everyone for all the advice. I'm thrilled it ended up being an easy fix, but it was a relief to be armed with a solid battle plan if needed.

-Sculpin

 

[TJL]

Hey Sculpin, Your fish is not cured just has the parasites in dormancy at the moment and with first major stressor will show itself again. Again, this fish (all fish in system) need to be QT'd and treated or there is a fair chance of losing all Fish in a serious outbreak in the future. Unfortunately I'm to well versed on this scenario and just recently finished the whole QT w/copper treatment and Fallow DT for 8+ weeks after losing several fish. Do it correctly now while it's alot more convenient. Lee posted the links to the best options for you and your fish above, the sooner you start the sooner you'll be back to a healthy parasite free system.


Cheers, Todd

 

[Sculpin]

I'm a week into treatment, and I was wondering if I needed to do the full 4 weeks or just two weeks of treatment for the parasite?

 

[leebca]

Complete the full treatment time, as given in the recommendation. Also, after treatment, hold the fish in quarantine for at least 4 more weeks to verify the treatment was a success.

 

[Sculpin]

Thanks Lee!

The thing that confuses me is that the fish showed signs of a problem when it was under stress (poor diet), but stopped showing problems once it was returned to the healthy diet. For a condition like ich, I understand the reason for keeping the fish in quarantine after treatment, but with this parasite, how likely is it that I would observe signs of the existing condition after treatment is complete if there are no stressors to trigger a physical reaction?

 

[leebca]

There are many stressors, besides diet, to the captive fish. The choice of the size of the QT is important. It adds stress and it gives the parasite the greatest advantage to show itself. Most hobbyists blow off the size, configuration, and contents of the QT recommendation, sometimes being very inventive on changes to the process, but the recommendations play a role in showing up parasites, diseases, and other maladies. The recommendations are there for a purpose. The parasite is looking for a host and in a small area, the host fish can't get away and is closeby. So in the right QT (size and configuration and contents) it will show itself again with a probability greater than 99.99%. With close attention (inspection and observation) by the hobbyist, and by diligently following directions and recommendations, the parasite doesn't slip by. In every case I've been able to personally investigate, the hobbyist failed at one or more of these instructions. The one case I can say it did slip by, I still think there was an error by the hobbyist that I just couldn't find (or was hidden). [BTW, that 'hobbyist' was me!]