2 Angels

[greenmonkey51]

My plan all along for my 125g was to have a majestic angel. I always liked the Chaetodontoplus angels and I have a chance to get a Chaetodontoplus melanosoma. Would these 2 get along. I've heard the best way to mix angels was different genus.

 

[returnofsid]

I highly doubt a 125 is large enough for a Majestic Angel, let alone 2 Angels. Although the Majestic Angel is one of the smaller of the species. Here's a great article talking about mixing Angels, with a Majestic Angel as one of them. It would appear that the Majestic is one of the less aggressive of the family. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/7/fish Great article with good results in mixing Angels. I'd only worry about tank size. From what I'm reading, they each need a minimum tank size of 100 gallons. However, I do see a couple sites recommending a minimum tank size of as low as 50 gallons for the C. melanosoma.

 

[leebca]

For the smaller of the largest adult Angels, I would not recommend any tank less than 180 gallons and then, after they reach above 5" to move to a 300 gallon.

 

[greenmonkey51]

If a 125g is to small for a majestic, then why would a purple tang be ok in a 125g. Looking at body structure and feeding habits it seems backwards. Lee, I know you've recommended those sizes before for imperator angels and I can easily see why, but why so big for an angel that has a much small potential size and overall disposition. I'm not gonna try 2 angels, mainly because it seems to be pretty difficult, but my tank seems like a good tank for a majestic.

 

[roscoe]

Yeah their is the rule you should go by, but man 90% of hobbyist don't follow the text book of how to do things ever. I've seen so much rule breaking practices in this hobby its rediculous. JMO what ever works and how ever you want to do things is up to you. Think about it none of our HOME aquarium is large enough for anything really (except for a few exceptions), but we still cram everything into a glass or acrylic box just for our viewing pleasure. Anyways regardless of the rule of thumb we as people will do what ever just to please our selves. With that said you can tell someone NO you shouldn't do that but they want it so bad they will get it anyways. Seen it happend many times over.

Sarang

 

[chend2]

Hey Sarang what is your PB tang in again?

 

[roscoe]

My lovely and vibrantly healthy Powder Blue tang you are talking about is in a 40b. Matter of fact here is the thread.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33468&highlight=roscoe

 

[azgard1]

I think truly, any tank less than 300 is marginal for any Tang or Angel of the larger growing variety. But as said above, I expect most do what they want. Room for the fish to swim is important, food if supplied in abundance and or unlimited similar to a real reef is really not possible, and for what we do feed, filtration working at the max is very important.

Truth be known they should all probably stay in the sea if we were absolute stewards and really considerate of oceanic life....

But then again we would never learn anything about other life forms, no science no discovery... I don't know, who's to say, are we hobbyists, scientists, those who speak for animal protection and preservation?

Personally I enjoy the science and discovery, and couldn't say I don't enjoy just watching them float around...... What's important is " man's got to know his limitations", a little Clint Eastwood advise.

I feel Lee is a mentor for me and we have never met. His advise is generally beyond reproach, but I don't always listen to everything and sometimes stray from advanced knowledge.

Computers have given us an incredible resource of information. Take it all in, pick and chose, but most of all have a good time

 

[roscoe]

Very well phrased there.

 

[greenmonkey51]

I'm not saying this about anyone, but the older experienced aquariast's aren't always correct anymore. They may recite information from a previous decade that is outdated. You also have the problem of getting multiple opposing opinions and thats not only from relative beginners, but also the advanced aquariast. Also many people think about the max size when suggesting tank sizes, but how long does it take to hit that max size. I'm assuming for many large angels that it takes years for them to hit the max size. Do you know what your life will look like in 5 years. I would say very few people anymore do. I'm a student so my entire situation could easily change in a year. In 5 years, I could easily see having a much bigger tank or I can see me having a little 30g-40g tank. Right now I'm trying to live in the moment and enjoy the hobby.

 

[azgard1]

The older experienced aquariasts on this forum are some of the best you will find on the planet. Many marine biologist, chemists, physicists, etc etc.
Tread lightly my friend.

 

[greenmonkey51]

I never mentioned this forum specifically. I can see where I may of implied it, but I didn't mean to. I try and visit many websites and get many different opinions when doing anything. I've seen more experienced aquarist give bad advice before, so I won't take one persons word for anything.

 

[leebca]

Greenmonkey,

Please be patient. I'm very tired of repeating myself (not your fault). I will write a post that hopefully will pull everything together regarding tank size for marine fishes. This will tie-in with the post: Fish Stocking Limit – for FO and FOWLR

I'm not ignoring your post. Just give me a week and I'll have a reply you deserve. Thanks.

 

[csababubbles]

Can hardly wait for your new stickie Lee!

 

[csababubbles]

jeez a week? you took like less then an hour to write that. thanks from all of us for the great read!

 

[leebca]

I'll be mulling it over and correcting errors over the next few days. Best to wait. Posting it helps me to edit it.

 

[leebca]

If a 125g is to small for a majestic, then why would a purple tang be ok in a 125g. Looking at body structure and feeding habits it seems backwards. Lee, I know you've recommended those sizes before for imperator angels and I can easily see why, but why so big for an angel that has a much small potential size and overall disposition. I'm not gonna try 2 angels, mainly because it seems to be pretty difficult, but my tank seems like a good tank for a majestic.

Okay. Ready to respond.

If you'll review my post: What Size Tank for that Marine Fish? you'll see where I'm coming from with regards to how I come to my opinion.

The Majestic Angel, a.k.a. Bluegirdled Angel - Pomacanthus navarchus

I usually refer to it as 'Navarchus.' I have one now, point of fact. The Majestic Angel (one of my favorite of the large Angels) comes to its full coloration at a very young age. That is, a small fish has the adult markings. This makes this particular fish an attractive purchase among the large Angels. Many small sized fish come through the system and 'attract' the unknowing hobbyists into the acquisition (besides all the less-than-good advice of others).

In the wild, this fish is recorded to have been eating like that of an omnivore. It has a very wide and varied diet. It roams the reef and picks here and there. Like the other large Angels, it needs space to roam in the DT, even if it doesn't reach their sizes.

However, in the wild and captivity this fish is very reclusive. After keeping a few dozen of these fish I've come to realize their 'mental disposition.' It is esily upset and startled and this is one of the reasons it fails to properly acclimate. That is, the hobbyist doesn't establish the correct environment for the fish. Part of the 'proper' environment is plenty of hiding places and peaceful tank mates. This fish will feel intimidated even by fishes the hobbyist would swear is not bothering it. This is a key to my opinion. I have housed this species in DTs from 50 to 300. The best success at final acclimation has been training in QT then going into the larger DT.

This fish, though small(est) of the large Angels needs space to hide and roam because of its nature/personality. It needs space for not only its growth and proper husbandry, but for psychological reasons. Can it be housed in a DT smaller than other large Angels? Yes. Can the fish handle aquarium hopping. Not well.

Whereas others of the large Angel group can handle moving up to larger aquariums, this fish is the least likely (among the most kept ornamental large Angels) to readjust to that experience. It should start out in an aquarium that will accommodate its ultimate size.

Pulling it together:
I am assuming the DT will contain other fish. Even the most friendly of these posses a psychological 'threat' to the Majestic.
The length of the tank, though important for a distance-swimming Tang is not what the Majestic needs. It needs an aquarium of a larger 'foot print.' Length and width (distance from front to back of the DT) is as important, if not more than the length. The fish must not only be able to hide from horizontal view, but have enough width to totally hide from both front and back views.
The fish must be allowed to 'roam' in enough space.

Thus my opinion is that this fish should be housed very much like the other large Angels. Because it is in the larger tank than its size may warrant, the fish should not go through many tank hopping or have security issues. However, my recommendation is different for this fish than many others of the large Angels in that at the 'above 5" size' the 300 is suitable. I usually say above 6" or so the other large Angels should be moved to a 500+.

Hope the above shows where/how I've developed my opinion.

 

[greenmonkey51]

I understand what your saying. I have heard that majestic's have a fragile mind. I have fashioned my tank to more of an open scape to allow for more swimming room. This has worked really well for my butterflies. What angel would work well in my tank then. The scribbled has caught my eye before.

 

[leebca]

What you are apparently looking for is an Angelfish that will spend most of its time out in the open. I don't know of any Angel (Dwarf or otherwise) that is inclined to do this. A very well established Angel will still find that not being in the open is its best interest.

I'm looking at my tanks right now. I just fed my fishes. Of all the Angels I have (I have 7), I see only one and that is because it is moving from one hiding place to another. Consider that they have been with me for several years. They still want to hide.

The exception to the above has been the juveniles of the large Angels. They will often remain in the open. My juvenile Emperor remains front and center (just to be sure it doesn't miss a meal, I think). It seems that the juvenile form have a bold or 'not yet smart enough to realize' mental state of why they should hide. Maybe that is why the older ones are the shy ones! The bold ones in their youth get picked off by predators, leaving only the more discrete fishes to live to maturity.

 

[greenmonkey51]

I still have hiding spots, my tank though isn't completely packed with rock. I think 3 dwarfs might cool particularly a eibli, vrolki, and nox