30x30x30 cube designs would love opinions

[iwantone]

Hey everyone! I'm in the process of setting up a 30 inchx30x30 acrylic cube. The theme is ritteri anemones and a small school of clownfish. There will of course be a an assortment of sps and softies. The idea is to have no leaks (therefore no sump). YOUR OPINION DEFINITELY COUNTS...

Lighting: 175 watt DE metal halide (10k) with at least 4, 2 feet 75 watt vho uri actinics in a custom hanging height adjustable canopy.
Any ideas on the halide bulb brand or kelvin?? I only have experience with vho's, any opinions on T5's

Circulation: Wave2K (any negative feedback), supplemented with 2 Tunze turbelle streams (any opinions on which one of these to use because they have huge price differences) Can I hook the turbelle streams to a tsunami wavemaker??

Filtration: CPR dual bak pak hang on the back protein skimmer rated for 120 gallon aquariums with dual skimmer boxes (want to avoid anemone soup). I'm also thinking about hanging a large CPR refugium on the back for mangroves(really need opinions on that one!!). Finally, the tank will also house a 16 inch farm raised gigas

Substrate: I don't want to start a war here, but I was thinking 2 inch mixed live sand substrate with no plenulem. I'm still contemplating. Thanks everyone

 

[scottw]

Filtration: CPR dual bak pak hang on the back protein skimmer rated for 120 gallon aquariums with dual skimmer boxes (want to avoid anemone soup). I'm also thinking about hanging a large CPR refugium on the back for mangroves(really need opinions on that one!!).

I am concerned with the CPR you are going to be putting a powerhead directly into your tank full of anemones. I would not do that. I know you don't want any leaks but I lost a few over time when I ran and AquaC remora skimmer, those powerheads are magnets for anything soft, including snails. Even with the filter pads on the powerheads.

So is a fuge 100% no?

 

[scottw]

Circulation: Wave2K (any negative feedback)

P.S.
If I can find mine you can have it.. Save your money, Tunze are also a waste in under 6' of tank.. Your going 30 so you may look into something else.

Circulation: Wave2K (any negative feedback), supplemented with 2 Tunze turbelle streams (any opinions on which one of these to use because they have huge price differences) Can I hook the turbelle streams to a tsunami wavemaker??

Not good to hook up to a wavemaker, Tunze says no less then 1 hour in between on/off

 

[iwantone]

1) the cpr powerheads will be covered with a small skimmer box with a sponge that will keep the anemones away. I have used one in the past and never lost any snails.

2) What's the matter with the Wave2k. It looks like a great product. Especially for a tank that is 30 inch x 30 x30. I heard if you cover the holes on the sides they work better.

3) Thanks for the advice on avoiding the Tunze Turbelle Streams (you saved me a small fortune!). Any ideas then on circulation if I don't use a sump?? Overcourse nothing is leak proof, but I'm trying to limit my risk.

 

[wrightme43]

Yeah tunze are best if they dont get turned on and off. The multi controller just ramps spead up and down but never shuts down the pump.
I have one big question, have you ever spent anytime looking at well designed and thought out sump filtration systems. Leaks are no more of a issue than any other if well thought out. I like tunze alot. I put one on a 150 and have been extremly impressed. Its the 6200 and it moves massive amounts of water.
Instead of the wave2k take a look at tunze wavebox. I was nervous of it at first now the more I see of it the more impressed I am. You could just use one of them and no other wave maker at all. It uses resonence of wave form in water to make the whole water colum in your tank move back and forth, every part of the tank gets back and forth flow non stop. Do a little searching and you should find video of it in operation. The only worry I have is over time it wearing out the seams on the tank. I have not been hearing about that at all. So I dont believe its been a issue. Steve

 

[scottw]

1) the cpr powerheads will be covered with a small skimmer box with a sponge that will keep the anemones away. I have used one in the past and never lost any snails.

2) What's the matter with the Wave2k. It looks like a great product. Especially for a tank that is 30 inch x 30 x30. I heard if you cover the holes on the sides they work better.

3) Thanks for the advice on avoiding the Tunze Turbelle Streams (you saved me a small fortune!). Any ideas then on circulation if I don't use a sump?? Overcourse nothing is leak proof, but I'm trying to limit my risk.

Just looking out for your snails and anemones ..

The wave2k IMO is not worth the money they cost. The bands break on them all the time, even though they are cheap to replace its still un-needed money to spend.

If your going the hang on skimmer look into the AquaC Remora much better IMO then the CPR stuff.

If it were me, I would run a closed loop with a quality pump and be done with it, not powerheads, no tunze (esp a wavebox if your going glass as they weaken the bonds) reduces the life of the tank (I forget the amount) but still. If your going acrylic then maybe still, I wouldnt go Tunze plus a wavebox is like 400-600 if you can find one.

Go with an extra hole drilled for your closed loop and you will be much happier!

 

[iwantone]

1)I'm concerned about the wavebox decreasing the longevity of the tank just from watching the video. It's too big a gamble for me.

2) I've seen a lot of well designed sumps. I was originally thinking of using 2 seaswirls on each back corner and a sump. There would also be overflow on the back wall with returns that would push away any anemones. I had a seaswirl when they first came out 5 years ago and it was fantastic until it broke. I guess they've fixed that problem as a lot of people seem to have them now. So if I go with sump system, any pump recommendations, check valve recommendations, how well does the SCWD work??

 

[scottw]

1)I'm concerned about the wavebox decreasing the longevity of the tank just from watching the video. It's too big a gamble for me.

2) I've seen a lot of well designed sumps. I was originally thinking of using 2 seaswirls on each back corner and a sump. There would also be overflow on the back wall with returns that would push away any anemones. I had a seaswirl when they first came out 5 years ago and it was fantastic until it broke. I guess they've fixed that problem as a lot of people seem to have them now. So if I go with sump system, any pump recommendations, check valve recommendations, how well does the SCWD work??

Pump: for the best bang for the $ use a Dart from Sequence I use them on my coral farm, move a ton of water, don't use a lot of KWh, and priced perfect.

You are correct on the beating of the tank with the wavebox, too much risk for me.

SCWD are torture on pumps, they really decrease the life of them. I would go with a hole drilled or a sump, run the PVC over the back of you tank to minimize the holes in your tank, and your set. Use Schedule 80 for the pvc that goes into the tank, gray hides better then white.

I would go with a sump for sure. Just get a nice overflow to support the pump and you wont have any water on the floor . go with like 2 x 1 1/2" holes in the overflow for out, 2 durso's. and a dart and you will have enough flow for what you are trying to grow , the fish will thank you.

 

[iwantone]

1) Thanks for the advice on the wave2k. I think I'll pass on it. So it looks like I'll go the 2x sea swirl way. Advice on best pump and check valves to us would be appreciated.

2) If I'm going to use a sump, may as well dish the hang on skimmer idea. Any preferences on Skimmers that fit in sumps or outside?? Any models in particular? A 30x30x30 tank is about 117 gallons

Thanks...

 

[scottw]

1) Thanks for the advice on the wave2k. I think I'll pass on it. So it looks like I'll go the 2x sea swirl way. Advice on best pump and check valves to us would be appreciated.

2) If I'm going to use a sump, may as well dish the hang on skimmer idea. Any preferences on Skimmers that fit in sumps or outside?? Any models in particular? A 30x30x30 tank is about 117 gallons

Thanks...

No problem on the wave2k bro .

Go with check valves for sure, I get them from customaquatics they are like 14 or so. Not bad for 1 1/2 inch clear blue.

I would go with Sequence pumps, I love the Dart.

what are you looking to spend on the skimmer so we have a base to start with. (i will answer in the am also.. off to bed I go.. getting old stinks )

 

[Maxx]

Hmm....ambitious plan, but you need to know how difficult H.magnifica anemones are to keep. They are considered a most demanding and delicate anemone and really only very experianced aquarists should try to keep them. That being said, these anemones require lots of light, lots of water movement, and excellent water quality. here are some links for you to read over....
HOST ANEMONES by Joyce Wilkerson, PE
Anemone FAQ (PDF)
The Breeder's Registry 2003 Anemone Survey
FIELD GUIDE TO ANEMONE FISHES AND THEIR HOST SEA ANEMONES
Keeping Anemones by Rob Toonen
Anemones in Captive Systems pt 1 by Robert Fenner
Anemones in Captive Systems pt 2 by Robert Fenner
You'll also find lots of other links in those last two by Robert Fenner.
Are you committed to the idea of an H.magnifica or do other anemones appeal to you also?

So lets start breaking down what you have here....

I'm in the process of setting up a 30 inchx30x30 acrylic cube. The theme is ritteri anemones and a small school of clownfish. There will of course be a an assortment of sps and softies. The idea is to have no leaks (therefore no sump).

I have a sump and havent had any leaks at all. Its all in the planning. Mine is set up so if power goes out, the tank backsiphons only so much water and wont overflow the sump. This is easy to do, I'll explain later if you want. Your tank will be approximately 115 gallons overall, but you will have a fair amount of this water going verticle so you wont have as much room as it sounds. Also keep in mind that H. magnifica reaches 36+ inches in overall size, so technically, your tank is already too small for a full grown anemone, much less any corals you want to add.

Lighting: 175 watt DE metal halide (10k) with at least 4, 2 feet 75 watt vho uri actinics in a custom hanging height adjustable canopy. Any ideas on the halide bulb brand or kelvin?? I only have experience with vho's, any opinions on T5's

To my knowledge, 175 watt DE's dont exist. There are the 150 HQI's, (not necessarily DE's), 250 watt DE's, and 400 watt DE's. For a 30 inch deep tank housing SPS and a H.magnifica, I woulndt think of going anything less than 250 watt bulbs, DE's if you want to be able to keep light hungry corals near the bottom. From what I've been able to research, T-5's are an adequate replacement for VHO's and they use less energy. However, to be honest, you dont really need actinic supplementation because all the corals and anemones photosynthetic needs are taken care of by the MH lighting...as long as you are running at least the 6500K Iwasaki or higher Kelvin bulb. People are primarily running VHO's/PC's/T-5's in conjunction with MH's for aesthetic reasons.
More reading for you....
Sanjay's reef lighting pages
250 watt SE bulb/ballast test

Circulation: Wave2K (any negative feedback), supplemented with 2 Tunze turbelle streams (any opinions on which one of these to use because they have huge price differences) Can I hook the turbelle streams to a tsunami wavemaker??

I havent been able to find anything good said about these things. I would avoid them entirely. A better choice IMO, for this size tank, and for what you are wanting to do is www.oceansmotions.com . I have a 4way HD unit for my 58 gallon tank, and I'm happy with it. If I had a larger tank, I'd probably go with a motorized ball valve, but since one wont fit in the area behind my tank, I went with this instead. Evolution Aquatics is correct when he says your tank is too small for Tunze streams, although I feel they work fine in tanks 4 feet or longer, and dont really reach their full flow potential in a tank smaller than 4 feet. Check out this thread for some pointers on water flow for your tank...The Plumbing and Water flow Workshop

Filtration: CPR dual bak pak hang on the back protein skimmer rated for 120 gallon aquariums with dual skimmer boxes (want to avoid anemone soup).

I'm not a big fan of the CPR skimmers. They work, but not well enough to do the job for a H.magnifica tank. I would suggest you buy the best skimmer you can afford.
More reading for you....
Skimming 101
If your good at DIY, check this out...DIY Skimmer Workshop
I also saw that Evolution Aquatics has some very good skimmers for sale at his website...might want to look there too...
Bottom line, a skimmer is just as important as Lighting and Waterflow to this type of tank, both the SPS and the Anemone will require excellent water quality to do well.

I'm also thinking about hanging a large CPR refugium on the back for mangroves(really need opinions on that one!!).

If you design a sump right, you could easily have your refugium in there, would save you some space, and make things easier to access. I've never kept mangroves, but from what I've been able to read, the only negative side is they suck up magnesium from the water column. Magnesium has a direct correlation to the calcium and alkalinity levels in your water, so you kinda need to pay attention to that.

Finally, the tank will also house a 16 inch farm raised gigas

Hmmm.....Do you already have the clam? I would suggest you go with a different type of clam as the gigas grow really quickly and will also out grow your tank. I would suggest going with some of the smaller clam species...T.maxima, T.Crocea, etc Derasa's are also pretty, and hardy (for a clam) but dont grow as large as the Gigas, but they still grow very large...so keep that in mind....

Hope all of this helps, I realize it sorta looks like I'm ripping up your tank plans here, but I'm not. I'm just trying to give you some other viewpoints and some info you might not have had. You seem to have done some research and are really researching this before you commit, which is great. Researching and reading will save tons of money and aggravation in the long run.

Nick

 

[iwantone]

I'm not going to go cheap on a skimmer, but I don't want to make the water sterile either. Their is going to be a giant clam (abot 16 inches). I was thinking perhaps an ETSS reef devil which comes with pump Catalina CA 1800 (about 240 dollars combined). I know nothing about the reputation of this pump. I like to think ETSS wouldn't associate with a crappy pump, but I'm pretty naive. Any other combo skimmer/pump recommendations greatly appreciated.

The Sequence Dart seems to be pretty good. Is it strong enough for 2 sea swirls?? Should I use 2 Darts, one for the skimmer and one for circulation?? Are they quiet pumps?? I HATE NOISE. Thanks again...

 

[iwantone]

Not ripping the plans at all.... They are evolving. If I wanted to hear only good things I would have asked my mom.

1) The plan is to grow the ritteri really big, and split it. I did this many years ago with a lot of success. You are right in that this anemone is not for the inexperienced. The anemone will only be added after the tank is growing a lot of coraline.

2) I've had a reef aquariums since 1990. I haven't had one in 2 years, and there are a lot of new products. Mistake: HQI is a 150 not a 175. I'm in debate on whether to use a 250 DE. If the 150 DE has a few more lumens than a 175 watt mogul than I think it would be perfect as I have had success with this in the past in a 24 inch deep tank.
3) 16 inches is quite large. Perhaps a 12 deresa would be better after all. They are prettier. There is something alluring about a monster clam though. However, now that you have me thinking about it a 16 inch clam could easily spurt water out of a 30 inch high tank!! Looks like I will go with a large deresa and/or squamosa.

4) This tank will not be overstocked. There will be a few aquacultured SPS, montipora... They will be small frags with plenty of room given for growth so my hand stays out of the tank. They will only be added after the ritteri has "nested". I know they like to travel (but this is only when they are unhappy with current, light...) There will also be soft corals. I like the look of Dutch tanks, they aren't packed unnaturally tight.

3) I'd prefer to buy than try and make my own skimmer. Any opinions appreciated on ETSS or alternatives...

Thanks again...

 

[iwantone]

4) I think I'll skip the mangroves. I don't want them to compete with clam for nitrates or the corals for magnesium. I want to keep things as simple as possible.

 

[Maxx]

Okay, I'm glad to see that you have experiance with this anemone from the past...I was a little concerned you didnt quite understand what you were getting yourself into....

If I wanted to hear only good things I would have asked my mom.

ROFL!!! I know what you mean. Glad to see you have sense of humor too...

Here is yet another link for you to read....Product review: IceCap/150 HQI This is a very promisng review of this particular product. However, I havent heard anything else (good or bad) about them. I know the bulb selection is not nearly as large as the 250's. I would really consider going the 250 SE route if your concerned about having too much light. You have soooo many more choices in bulbs with the 250's.

I'd prefer to buy than try and make my own skimmer. Any opinions appreciated on ETSS or alternatives...

The ETSS skimmers are good skimmers, they just require a larger pressure rated pump to run them. I dont know about the pump that comes with the Reefdevil, so I cant tell you anything about it. I have a EuroReef CS6-2 running on my 58 gallon reef, and to be honest with, I would have gone larger if I could have fit it in the stand. I dont think you can overskim a tank. You might really want to read that skimming 101 thread I posted a link to earlier...its full of a lot of info. You could easily have someone build you a custom skimmer using the info in that thread and come up with a perfect skimmer for your set up that would cost you nearly as much as a high end skimmer.

Nick

 

[iwantone]

The canopy will be on an adjustable pulley so I can vary the light intensity. There will be an agrocrete rock formation in the middle that will go to about 5 inches from the surface of the aquarium. The anemone will eventually move there because I will keep the light high enough so that he travels up. I will then move the light down very slowly over a few weeks to avoid burning it. I liked the idea of the 150 DE because I live in California where the electric bills can be crazy. I will be supplementing with 4 VHOs or T5s actinics. However, at most that's only about 300 watts for a 120 tank ( I know we are suppose to use lumens). I think I may have to go with the 250 DE afterall. Perhaps the 250 DE XM 15k. I'll of course have to add a chiller and heater combo as these anemones don't tolerate temp swings well.

I know they say you can't overskim tanks, but you can overdo anything. The worst tank I ever saw had an 8 foot skimmer, Lights with more wattage than the sun, and more current than a tide pool. I'll be doing 5 percent water changes every 2 weeks anyways. I like the ETSS skimmers because you don't have to mess with water level and they seem really efficient given their size. I'll look into the other options.

Thanks again...

 

[Forestal]

sounds like a great tank...you are more experienced than me so i cant' offer advice, only encouragement

 

[iwantone]

Latest update: will probably go with Dual E-Ballast HQI Pendants 150w, 1500k XMs and not use VHOs as I don't want to build custom canopy. Dart sequence pump with 1x Sea Swirl 1" in the back corner for circulation. Will have an overflow along the other back corner wall in the center with centipede spray bar to push away any anemones and also to get any dead spots underneath the corner where the sea swirl is. Will have a large sump with an insump supreme mag 7 pump for an ETSS Deluxe Reef Devil Protein Skimmer. I'm still looking into other skimmers...

I'm begining to have second thoughts about H. magnifica (ritteri). Unless I can get one that is in amazing shape, I will probably go with something else like a bubble tip. Keeping a ritteri requires constant temperature, which although I live in San Diego where it is always 72 degrees would still require a chiller and even more money.

 

[scottw]

30" is deep for 150w you wont be able to keep much at the bottom.

 

[iwantone]

250w hurt might eyes. The DE 250 are even brighter. I want more of a soothing deep water lagoon reef grotto look. There will also be a lot of caves. I know this is hard to acheive in a 30 inch cube. The rock will be manmade so I'll have some artistic freedom. The bottom 1/3 will be mainly for mushrooms and low light softies. My only trepidation with 2x 150 DE is placement of a large clam (this may not be fit into the landscape). I'll place drawings next week of the tank landscape and design.