Acrylic 120 setup

[snowstar]

Evening everyone!

I'm getting ready to start a project to break down my 180 Allglass RR and move the corals and most of the fish into an Acrylic 120 (4'x2'x2'). Why you ask? I did not think my way through my the 180 aquarium's maintenance area and am completely our of space I do however have space for a 120 in an adjoining room. So - we talked it over and in the coming weeks are going to setup the new tank - cycle it - I want to use fresh rock -to get completely away from rock that has ever been on a sand bed - then move the corals and fish over to the new tank. Honestly, I would try to do something a bit different, and not go to the extra-tank setup but I am not happy with the Allglass tank and am going to ultimately move into larger acrylic after the room is ready. All that said, I hope you fine folks will share your ideas and knowledge as I put this one together.

Lisa

 

[Krish]

Good luck Lisa! I hope everything works out great for you...I just downgraded from a 90 to a 75 so don't feel bad

 

[snowstar]

I know I am kinda disappointed with having to do this - espicially after Mojo so kindly helped me to get the flow problems straightened out in the 180 - but what can I do I have to be able to plumb in a water line and drain then squeeze in a sink, and autotop off area where the tank will eventually go as well as a kalk reactor and Ca reactor - boy are sps greedy.... for Ca and Alk....

 

[Krish]

I know I am kinda disappointed with having to do this - espicially after Mojo so kindly helped me to get the flow problems straightened out in the 180 - but what can I do I have to be able to plumb in a water line and drain then squeeze in a sink, and autotop off area where the tank will eventually go as well as a kalk reactor and Ca reactor - boy are sps greedy.... for Ca and Alk....

LOL...Now you can give Mike something else to do

 

[NaH2O]

Here's a great plumbing design for a 120... Some Plumbing for Nikki

 

[snowstar]

I was hoping you would show up Nikki... I have read through that thread at least up to about page 11 once or twice and of course the creation of mojo's tank a few times, and had pretty much decided that your tank was where I wanted to go with the closed loop - same size good flow makes sense. A bit later today I hope to have time to detail the equipment I plan on migrating over from the 180 and the process I am going to use to get there. Then we can see what you guys think and how I can tweek out the plan. So hopefully it is all good...

 

[snowstar]

I should have asked is there anything that you regret about the CL and the pump choice ---- I guess what I'm wanting to ask is: are there any corals & fish you would like to keep but cannot? Or better yet since we are basically setting up a fairly high flow tank wan you keep say a mandarine or a flame hawk or is the flow just to great?

 

[NaH2O]

I always wanted a mandarin, but after watching the flow, I just don't think it would be a good fit. I went for a wrasse instead. A Flame Hawk might be alright if the rockwork is placed right with enough perch spots inbetween the swimming. I had a bicolor blenny at one time (before it became a SPS eater) that didn't have any trouble getting around...he just stayed toward the front of the rocks.

I am still thrilled with my closed loop, and wouldn't do anything different with it. I keep an eye on smaller fish near the intakes when first introduced. I watched my female anthias hiding right above one of the intakes her first time in the tank, and I think she was tired.....she got sucked right on the intake. I quickly turned off the closed loop, she swam off, and has been with me ever since. The fish really don't have a problem around the intakes, and the snails march across them just fine, so that's why I think the stress of acclimation to the tank must have worn her out to get pulled like she did. My pump (Ampmaster 3000) has been fine since setting up. It received a vinegar cleaning last month.

 

[snowstar]

Ok - Upfront I am horrible with drawings - so let me try to describe what I want to do.

As I said before - I am forced to break down my 180RR tank and remodel the room it is in to accomodate more equipment in the area behind the tank. To include water/sink and then lots of Aquarium related equipment. Auto-topoff, various reactors, ect. In other words I'm very tired of trying to maintain an sps tank using drip methods and 2part solutions.

So I am going to make room in the living room on the wall adjoining the fish room for an acrylic 120 - hopefully I will be able to setup an auto-topoff and reactors for this tank as soon as the 180 is down. The area directly behind the 120 will be the future location of the fish room equipment support area. I will have to deal with some brick but it should still be very doable...

So here goes -

The 120 will be an Acrylic 4'x2'x2' - Unlike Nikki's tank it will have only one corner overflow and then a coast to coast. Is there a reason to use 2 corner overflows - or was it a descision based just on flow? And would it be better to opt for external overflows? Since I am on the east coast and they seem to have a pretty good reputation for quality and customer service, I'm thinking of getting it made either by Andy at MyReefCreations or by Mike at PrecisionClarity. I know that several on these boards use IAP but unless there is a real mitigating reason to go with them, I can drive to either Andy's or Mike's and check on the tank and pick it up...

Now for the CL. I intend to setup a CL modeled after Nikki's tank - MBV and timer using a Sequence Dart (3500gph@0fthead) - I have a Hammerhead running a CL on the 180 but 5500gph@0fthead - but I think that may be tooo much flow on a 4' long tank so I don't think moving it over will be an option.

I leave it at that for now - I'd like to resolve the tank and pump issues so i can get the tank on order!

Thanks -
Lisa

 

[snowstar]

Thanks Nikki for the fish ideas and experiences... I had a mandarine in a 20 prop tank - she is now in the 'fuge on the 180 - I cracked the back of the 20. Like a moron I drilled it a bit to close to the edge for an overflow - worked fine for about 6 months then while cleaning it this past week I moved some plumbing a bit to far and stressed the glass. There went the back -

They really are great fish - and she adjusted to the flow of the 20 - it was plumbed with a CL using an IWAKI MD30RLT and a SCWD. Then the sump return was a via aqua 3300 through a SCWD. So the turn over was sort of high at roughly 30x for the tank volumn. That reminds me what do guesstimate the turnover on your tank to be and what would do you think is a good turnover rate?

Lisa

 

[NaH2O]

I have no clue what my turnover rate is. I have yet to figure that out. For me, depending on what you are keeping will determine how much flow you want in your system. Keeping detritus and things in the water column instead of collecting will be important. For SPS it is suggested to have more flow, but I don't know of a set turnover rate or guideline. The more the better, but you also don't want it so strong it is ripping tissue off.

I did find this quote, actually about the turnover in my system....thought I'd toss it in here. It did add to my confusion about the motorized ball valve and how much it changes the turnover rate to my system. Only 4 ouputs are being used at any given time.

Basically most people don't look into it that far. Someone like me will say that I have 46x water volume turnover, that means that I have a 90 g tank w/ a 3000 gph closed loop and 1200 gph return pump. Then if say Steve had the exact same setup but he figured it for head loss the steve says that he has 37x water volume turnover. I was down at a famous local fish store in Portland Oregon, it was a 180g tank w/ no powerheads, no closed loop, w/ 2 mag 24's feeding the returns from the sump, he said he had 26 times turnover (he had no where close to that, but the tank was one of the most amazing I had ever seen) Then there are those like Nikki, she has pretty much the same pumps as me but a slightly larger tank, so she has about 30 times turnover, but she has a industrial 3 way ball vavle silenoid that switches her current from one side to the other, at a interval, so does she have more like 60 times turnover? A lot of what you read is the users interpretation. Most people take all of their pumps that add flow to the display, add them up and divide by the tank size. Sorry for the ramble.

From the thread: Does everyone really have 10x-20x flow?

As for your question about 2 overflows. I really don't know. As long as your overflow is sized correctly, then I suppose it doesn't matter. Some folks use one center overflow, so I don't see why you couldn't do one corner overflow, especially with a coast to coast. There is a picture of a tank somewhere on here that has an external coast to coast overflow (wier?), so no real estate is taken up in the tank itself.

 

[snowstar]

Nikki - thanks for the ideas about turn over... I doubt that the MBV will boost us up to double the flow - as speculated by bigt but it will definitely help us max out the fow up to the max flow/restriction of our CL plumbing and the lock-line. I'm not sure what that turnover rate is and honestly I have not checked, but I'm comfortable in thinking the CL will provide about 33x on my tank -I'm getting a slightly larger pump but like yours it is not pressure rated. For about $100 more I could get a pressure rated pump that pushes 2800 gph @5ft - less flow but less wear on the pump also....

I'm ordering the tank Monday. I decided to get Andy at MyReefCreations to build it, nothing against Mike at PrecisionClarity - he does great work, Andy and I have had a few conversations about what I want and so welll...

The only change from my previous post is that instead of internal overflows, after talking to Andy I am going to have the tank built with a single corner and coast to coast overflow - both external. The lead time on the tank will be 4 to 6 weeks....

So now on to other aspects of the tank.

 

[NaH2O]

I like the idea of having the external. I had thought about this for a next tank project years down the line. The only pro to having it in the tank like I have, is the coast to coast and overflow boxes serve as a kind of blind to the loc-line. The locline is less obvious because it is being hidden in the tank. I look forward to seeing how your tank looks put together, and it may help me decide if I want to do external on a future project.

Is Andy going to do a Eurobrace top? What size acrylic, etc.? Look forward to pics of the tank in a few weeks.

 

[snowstar]

OK - tank is now officially ordered!!!! Yeah! I did go with the external coast to coast - but no corner --- I'm starting to understand how it will be plumbed a bit better. Having always delt with ready made "reef" glass tanks with the corner overflows - planning an acrylic is sooo different. The tank will not go into build for a couple of weeks so Andy is going to take some pictures of a tank with an external coast to coast next week just to make sure i am getting exactly what I want. Right now the overflow will only be 3' long as opposed to the entire tank length. I'm doing that so that I will have 6" on either side to place the returns from the sump. The overflow will have 4 drains drilled in the bottom to get water to the sump. I'm worried that I will not have a lot of clearence to plumb the closed loop. I can make it work - I'm just worried that I will have a problem making it work in a clean easy to maintain manner. That said I may bail on the external and plumb it more like your tank with the coast to coast and corner overflow all internal.... I will probably do some dry run plumbing this week to get an idea of what kind of frankenstein we will be plumbing....

 

[snowstar]

ok panic over new and different over..... it stays external.... after thinking about it for 5 minutes I had a very duh moment. The 4 drain lines will be about 2" off the back wall and should easily fit "under/behind" the plumbing for the closed loop.... where the @#$%^ was my head....

 

[snobanker]

Snowstar if you are going with the Nikki/Mike CL design, I have a brand new MBV for sale on the equipment FS forum. It's the same one used in those designs. Don't have the timer, but Nikki's thread has the lnk for that I believe. I was going with the same design, but changed my mind, for no reason other than changing my mind lol. If you are interested let me know.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12994

 

[NaH2O]

Why 4 drain lines? I'm curious to the reasoning behind that.

 

[snowstar]

Stan - I've sent you a PM .... ont the MBV....

Nikki - I'm not 100% sure why 4 other than the over flow will be three feet long - I know your coast to coast drains into your corners - since I'm going external I'm not going to use any corner overflows just the coast to coast. I think the choice of 4 is a spacing thing and to make sure I have the flow I want down to the sump. Having never setup an Acrylic tank with external overflows, much less a coast to coast, I'm trusting the tank builder on that part. I'm guessing that since I really do not want 2000 gph through the sump I will back off the flow through the overflow using ball/gate valves. My question is how will I prevent the flushing/water noise? In the traditional in tank overflows I have always used a durso standpipe or way back in the dark ages a sponge, but since the coast to coast is only 5" deep the bulkhead will basically just have a strainer on it.... should I be getting nervous again?

 

[NaH2O]

Hmmm....I don't know???

Let me see if I can dig up a thread where I remember seeing an external coast to coast (I thought drained with one drain in the center). I wouldn't think the length of the coast to coast would make a difference, but the size of the hole? Again...I'm not one of these plumbing gurus, but I'm trying to work it out in my head.

 

[NaH2O]

Alright...here it is....

The external coast to coast is called a weir. Mojo had posted on another thread that they can be more noisey, but that there were things you could do for that. Take a look at this thread....it is an amazing tank: 400 Gallon Sunroom Reef