advice needed

[ayrton]

Hi all,
unfortunately I have an ich outbreak in my 550 gls FWLR display and I haven't another big tank to put my 16 fishes.
I known all about every possible cure for ich and I know that only two scientific and proved methods are copper and Hyposalinity; I've tried garlic, vitamins, reef safe medicine (Esha's oodinex) and metronidazole in the food as usual but I can't wait anymore if I don't want loose all my fishes; I'm doing hypo but I have fear for swallowing that hypo could make to my 2 clowntriggers; infact 2 years ago I've tried hypo in my display using refractometer, monitoring salinity ph, kh, every parameters and bring salinity to 14 ppt; only two small clowtriggers begin to swallow, all other fishes were ok. Fortunately I took clowns out the tank and put them in another small tank with normal salinity and they come back to normal shape.
It wasn't any infection or stomac disease but only a problem of osmo regulation; so I'm very worried for my two clown triggers because I've to make hyposalinity to save all my fishes but I want to know if there is something to do to avoid swallowing problem!!!!!!!
Any advices will be appreciate

Lorenzo

 

[jetaero]

I don't believe those treatments you listed work well at all for ich. The product you want to get, is a no-ich, or other type of treatment directed at treating ich. Also, you should check for why they are getting ich, as it's usually brought on by stress.

-Josh

 

[steve-s]

I don't believe those treatments you listed work well at all for ich. The product you want to get, is a no-ich, or other type of treatment directed at treating ich. Also, you should check for why they are getting ich, as it's usually brought on by stress

Sorry that's just plain nonsense on all acounts.

Fortunately I took clowns out the tank and put them in another small tank with normal salinity and they come back to normal shape.
It wasn't any infection or stomac disease but only a problem of osmo regulation; so I'm very worried for my two clown triggers because I've to make hyposalinity to save all my fishes but I want to know if there is something to do to avoid swallowing problem!!!!!!

Triggers are not adversely affected by hyposalinity, they are however quite prone to intestinal worms. Have they ever exhibited signs of having worms or other internal ailments? ie.. bloating, sunken belly, irregular swimming habits, stringy or pale feces?

If worse comes to worse, do you have a seperate QT the triggers can be placed in for an alternate treatment. Either Cupramine or the transfer method (needs 2 QT's) will work otherwise.

Cheers
Steve

 

[ayrton]

Hi,
I'd like to know two things:
1. Is it possible to use ozone in hyposalinity?
2. Is my goldentail moray able to live in hyposalinity?
Thanks a lot

Lorenzo

 

[jetaero]

Sorry that's just plain nonsense on all acounts.

just wanted to reply to this...

"garlic, vitamins, reef safe medicine (Esha's oodinex) and metronidazole in the food " - I don't feel any of these treatments work well for treating ich, metronidazole can work, and the oodinex I'm not quite sure on.

As well, ich infestations can follow a fish for a while, but most times an outbreak is caused by the fish being under stress.

The "no-ich" I listed is a product made by fishvet, which works quite well.

-Josh

 

[ayrton]

steve .please help me

my clown trigger' gills are heavily infested (laboured gilling), and it is breathing with only one gill. I'm at 14 ppt now in my display tank; is it able to recover in this situation with hyposalinity or is it better to put it in a QT tank with cupramine to have more chances to save my ct?
Time is my enemy now and I would use the cure that is swifter to save my fish!!!!!!!!!

 

[jetaero]

If you can get the fish stable in the hyposalinity, that is the safest method. The invertebrates won't be able to live in that salinity. Be sure to try and keep the pH still high though, so as not to shock the fish...

-Josh-

 

[steve-s]

1. Is it possible to use ozone in hyposalinity?

Yes but watch the pH.

2. Is my goldentail moray able to live in hyposalinity?

No problem there at all.

my clown trigger' gills are heavily infested (laboured gilling), and it is breathing with only one gill. I'm at 14 ppt now in my display tank; is it able to recover in this situation with hyposalinity or is it better to put it in a QT tank with cupramine to have more chances to save my ct?

Copper nor hypo will affect the trophonts on the fish so switching treatments midstream will not improve your odds. I don't usually recommend this but an alternative, although risky if not done correctly, would be to give the trigger a quick FW bath. The sudden osmotic shock will dislodge (not kill) some of the trophonts easing the infestation of the gills easing the fishs ability to breathe. Be on the look out for secondary infection as well.

If you choose to do the FW dip, be extremely methodical. Check the pH of the RO water (preferabley) and buffer as needed. If you use tap which I don't recommend, be sure it is properly dechlorinated and carbon filtered first. Aerate the FW before and during the dip. Make sure the temp is exactly the same as the tank being taken from. If the fish at any times shows signs of extreme irritatioin, thrashing or stress; discontinue the dip and replace back in the tank. Do not let the dip last more than 3ish minutes. Any longer will not affect the trophonts anyway.

I will warn you, if the fish is close to death, the dip could send it over the edge. It could also help. It's a call you will have to make based on first hand assesment.

How is is the water quality of the tank? Being there is most likely die off, I would ensure this is not a toxic water reaction before considering the above. Check ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and alkalinity.

Cheers
Steve

 

[steve-s]

As well, ich infestations can follow a fish for a while, but most times an outbreak is caused by the fish being under stress.

The "no-ich" I listed is a product made by fishvet, which works quite well.

I should have adressed it a little more specifically I guess. It could be how you word it but for clarification, stress does not cause parasites to occur although it will reduce the fish immune response. A reduced immune response will affect how quickly animals are affected by disease/parasites. Wether the fish is healthy or not, it makes no difference though. A healthy fish is just as likely to be affected as an ailing fish. The only difference being, the ailing fish will be affected faster.

As for the No ich, it can worked true. I have actually used it myself but I would still not recommend it. The problem with it (and others like it) is it does not yield consistant results for each and every situation/tank it's used on. If there was such a treatment that could be used effectively in a display tank and worked each and every time it was used, I'd be yelling it from the roof tops. Unfortunatley that day has yet to come.

Cheers
Steve

 

[ayrton]

Hi Steve, my dispay tank is at 13ppt from 2 days; I've done a FW dip to my clown trigger and it helped it; my ct is still alive even though it has a heavy and rapid breathing. His body is still covered by ich and it's the same for my other fishes. Today my Regal Angel died.
My nitrites are 0,3mg/l, kh 12, ph 8,2; I'd like to know when Hyposalinity will begin to give some result and my fishes will be able to feel better; I know trophonts will attach to the fish for at least 3 days and as long as 7 days. I hope some trophonts begin to drop off the fishes tomorrow because I don't know how much time my fishes can survive in this condition.
What do you think about this situation? My clown trigger is so precious for me because it is a half of a couple of ct's; for many year I've tried to make a couple of this species of trigger and after many attempts I found two of them that are living together pacefully.
I want to keep these fishes alive desperately, so you have to give me some good advises and some hope to do this.
Thanks for your help and sorry for my many requests of help!!!!!!!!
Lorenzo

 

[steve-s]

There's actually not alot you can do. The FW dip helped which is good to hear but I would be careful of advising more dips. The problem being the obvious stress but it also will not "cure" the problem. It will only temporarily reduce the trophont level some. If the infestation is to the point where the fish is having difficult breathing, you can try another short bath but please please be sure this is absolutely necessary. Remember my warning previously.

As far as what else you can do, there's really not much else. No treatment you will come across will affected the parasite while it's on the fish. It's one reason why it's so important to treat as soon as it's diagnosed. Right now your basically playing a waiting game to where the parasite leaves the fish to reproduce. At that time you will begin to see a reduction in the infestation of the fish. It can be anywhere from 5-10 days dependant on when you reached the 13 ppt level on the salinity and at what stage of developement the trophont is. If that was yesterday or this moprning, you should see some possitive results by Saturday but it will only be a reduction, not a complete "remission" so to speak. No need to reduce the salinity further as it will not improve your results or the treatment time.

Keep monitoring the salinity/pH/Alk several times daily along with the water parameters. I would go ahead and do another water change to reduce the nitrite some and improve the fish O2 levels. Make sure the fish have plenty of hiding places, keep overhead light off and ensure foods fed are fortified with HUFA type vitamins and if possible Beta Glucan. Don't forget to siphon out uneaten foods and fish waste after feedings as well. Maintaining the best water quality you can will go along way to them helping themselves as well.

Cheers
Steve

 

[ayrton]

Hi Steve,
the situation in my tank is a little better and my fishes look better now but my wonderful clown trigger is still gaspin with one gill and it is very weak. Yesterday I've tried a FW bath with methylene blue; I dip fish in 3,5 litres of FW with 21 drops of 1% methylene blue solution for 10 minutes until I saw my ct layed on one side completely rigid and it wan't breathing; so I put back it in the tank keeping it in front of a pump to help for breathing; It began to breath again fortunately; I kept it so in front of the pump for 20 minutes then I released it near a rock.
Now it is keeping to breath with only one gill and is very weak, infact it stays on the sand leaned on a rock and it doesn't swim. This evenig when I was feeding all my fishes it tried to move for searching something to eat on the sand so I put a silverside in front of his mouth but it didn't anything.
Can I keep to hope for him? Can I do something to help him? Every minute of the day I hope to see him swimming and breathing normally!!!!!!!! Do you think is it still possible?
His body is more free of ick!!!!!!!!
Come on, Steve, please give me some hope for my beatiful and wonderful clown trigger!!!!
Thanks a lot for every precious advice and useful knowledge you give me and all great lovers of these marvelous creatures of the sea.

Lorenzo

 

[ayrton]

Could I put it in my QT in normal sea water (35 ppt) with cupramine after a little adaptation of the fish to normal salinity? or I have to wait parasites will come out of his gills?
Are there other methods to help it to breath?

Lorenzo

 

[steve-s]

There is actually nothing you can do. Switching from hypo to copper at this point would kill it outright. The problem is the damage the parasite has caused to the gill fillaments. Hyperplasia can set in and the gill lamellae grows to where the fish can no longer gain O2 due to flow restriction. Could also be secondary infection but I seriously doubt it.

Given your other fish are recovering and doing well, the prognosis is not good for the trigger. I wish I had better news. Don't try any more dips, especially that long. It will not help the trigger. I hate to say this but I would consider euthanasia.

Cheers
Steve