Advice please on solonoid valve for Calc Rx

[Jan]

I have been running an Octopus dual-chamber calcium reactor since May, so 4 months now, and I can't get it dialed in to the point where I don't have to measure alk each day and adjust the bubble count about every 2 days. I absolutely can't get the thing adjusted to the point where the alk level stays steady. Frustration level is way up there! Last night my alk level had dropped to 6 dhk, down 1 point in 24 hours.

...what can I do to improve the situation? My solonoid valve is not the best--it's not a needle wheel--it just has a dial for adjusting the bubble count and it's supremely difficult to adjust without over-correcting. That is the root of my problem, I think.

Can I put any solonoid valve on my reactor, and what would be a really good one to use? The one I have is made by Gen-X. I want one with a very precise adjustment mechanism and one that I can better see the CO2 level as opposed to just eye-balling the bubble count.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

 

[DonW]

If yo have the genx with the single adjustment knob there should be no problem at all getting a steady bubble count.

Does your bubble count vary from day to day?
Is the regulator the one with the single knob?

Don

 

[Jan]

Don, yes, it is the one with the single knob. The bubble count will stay steady unless I mess with the knob to adjust it. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm doing everything wrong but this is how it is for me:

I measure my alk, I see that it's dropped (or risen) too much and if it continues in that direction it will go out of my desired range, so I tweak the the knob on the reactor to try to get the CO2 to correct the trend. Then it over corrects, and I tweak it again, and this goes on and on.

In short, I use my Alk measurement to indicate how well my Calc Rx is dialed in and my process (or the regulator/solonoid) is not working for me.

 

[DonW]

What is your effluent rate?

 

[Jan]

I can tell you exactly when I am home (I'm at work...sshh, don't tell anyone).

I estimate that it is ~1 drop per second at this point. The drip rate has changed over time. At the beginning it was the way it is now, about 1 drop per second. Then one day the reactor was not behaving it all and Mark R. worked on it for me and after that the effluent was a steady stream instead of a drip. This did not seem to affect the amount or degree of Alk fluctuations, for what it's worth. Several weeks later Mark was doing some other work that involved resetting the Calc Rx and I noticed that the effluent rate had become a drip again instead of a steady stream.

 

[DonW]

There is your problem. You need to get a good steady adjustable effluent rate then adjust the co2 bubble count to the effluent rate.
I'd start with a effluent rate of 40ml/min and move that up or down as needed. Adjust the co2 until the reactor ph is where you want it. Dont use the co2 to adjust the reactor use the effluent rate. Only use the co2 to adjust the reactor ph.

Make sense

Don

 

[Jan]

It partially makes sense, but not completely (I'm not mechanically inclined).

I understand the part about how I should only adjust the CO2 to make a change in the reactor effluent ph, not to make a change in my tank's Alk level. That part is clear to me.

What I'm less clear on is this part:

You need to get a good steady adjustable effluent rate then adjust the co2 bubble count to the effluent rate.
I'd start with a effluent rate of 40ml/min and move that up or down as needed.

The effluent rate has only changed when the reactor has been worked on (so, twice now)...otherwise it is stable. How do I get the effluent rate into an adjustable flow? Should I use a peristatic pump instead of the minijet 660 I'm using? I'm sorry if I don't get what you're saying....

 

[DonW]

You need a good steady effluent flow. It needs to be adjustable in order to adjust for changes in the tank. If you can set your flow at 30ml /min and it will stay there with the MJ then your fine.
So get your effluent rate at a amount that you can measure with a cup or somthing. Now watch your tank. If the alk is dropping then up the effluent rate then up the co2 to keep the ph where it is supposed to be.
The higher the effluent rate the easier it will be to adjust the ph of the reactor. Dont try getting the effluent down to drips, this is a pain without a peri pump.

Don

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Is the MJ feeding your Calx or cycling the water through the media?

If the effluent rate is not steady nor adjustable, add a aqualifter or better type pump to feed the reacter. Put a valve whether pinch or better screw style on the return line feeding the effluent back into the tank. The plastic airline valves work well.

 

[Jan]

Well, this is the down-side to not having set up this reactor myself. I don't understand it. But I'm thinking that Mark set up my minijet 660 to cycle water through the reactor and an minijet 440 to feed the reactor. I'l ask Mark to take a look at this thread and confirm.

You need a good steady effluent flow. It needs to be adjustable in order to adjust for changes in the tank. If you can set your flow at 30ml /min and it will stay there with the MJ then your fine.
So get your effluent rate at a amount that you can measure with a cup or somthing. Now watch your tank. If the alk is dropping then up the effluent rate then up the co2 to keep the ph where it is supposed to be.
The higher the effluent rate the easier it will be to adjust the ph of the reactor. Dont try getting the effluent down to drips, this is a pain without a peri pump.

Thankyou very much Don and Mike, this is making sense to me now. I'm ready to go forth and conquer!

 

[Skimmy]

well, almost jan, it's a mj606 feeding the reactor, the recirculating pump is the octopus pump on the reactor, there is a valve on the effluent outlet.
im guessing the effluent line might be getting clogged at the valve and slowing the flow, that and mabye the pump intake on the feed pump might be getting clogged too.

don, this gen -x regulator valve does not seem stable AT ALL, you set it and the co2 drifts in the amount of bubbles over the coarse of a couple days.
also, how else other than a peristalic pump is she suppose to control the exact ml of effluent per hour? the mj606 is going full blast and is seemingly not able to keep up with the task of maintaining output through the reactor. is there something else i need to be checking?
i also took the recirc pump off line to check it out, no obstructions or calcium build up that would slow performance there.
ideas??

 

[Herefishyfishy]

"the mj606 is going full blast and is seemingly not able to keep up with the task of maintaining output through the reactor."

If it is wide open, should be tons of water flowing in and out. The pump is not working or one of the lines/fittings is clogged.

 

[Jan]

I will check out if the line is clogged.

I'm pretty certain that when the reactor first went online, the effluent rate was about 1 drop per second and it stayed that way for a long time. So it seems counterintuitive that line clogging was happening at that point.

 

[DonW]

First I would never put a valve on the output side only the input. The regulator shouldnt float unless your trying to get a very low bubble count. Its hard to get a low bubble count because you have the two pressures working against each other.
I would also never feed a reactor its to much work getting it perfect. I would pull through the reactor. You can pull through the reactor with a aqua lifter or peri, just like you were hooking up a cpr overflow. In other words suck dont pump/push.

If this is a low demand tank and your trying to get real low effluent rates and low bubble counts. The reactor may not be able to go low enough without pulling and may be your only option. Other than raising the effluent way up to about a 100ml/m and raising the co2 up to about 40 bpm to start with there may be no other option. Cheap reactors also tend to leak at the seals this pulls in air and causes what you describe. You can get a hand held vacuum pump for about $40 and would be a good tool for someone installing reactors on a regular basis. Pull a vacuum to about 30 and see it holds for 10 minutes if not you'll never get the reactor to work properly. MightyVac is a good brand and can be had at any autoparts store or even harbor freight.

Don

 

[Herefishyfishy]

First I would never put a valve on the output side only the input. You can pull through the reactor with a aqua lifter or peri, just like you were hooking up a cpr overflow. In other words suck dont pump/push.

Don

Don my Korallin Calcium Reactor has a valve on the return effluent line and recommends adding an aqua-lifter to "pressurize the system". Are they incorrect or are these system specific?

 

[DonW]

Don my Korallin Calcium Reactor has a valve on the return effluent line and recommends adding an aqua-lifter to "pressurize the system". Are they incorrect or are these system specific?

You will always have a more stable flow pulling throught the reactor no matter what reactor it is. Of course none of the manufacturers are going to tell you this with exception of one that I can think of. If you thought you had to have a expensive peri pump to get perfection you probably would never buy the reactor. Alot of folks have good luck with all sorts of feed methods but its a coin toss or just plain luck that it worked and conditions are right. With a peri pulling it will always be perfect.

Why no valve on the output. Thats simple, if it were to plug where is the co2 going to go? Its either going to go straight into the sump via the feed pump since its under water. You can use ph controller to combat this issue but why. If you just skipped the ph controller and got the peri pump to begin with it would be a mute point. No ph controller to give you a completly different set of problems to deal with.
A decent peri pump cost about $80 a ph controller cost $100 plus. Alot of people use a check valve on the feed pump this cures feed problems. In this case the co2 is going to build up until the reactor explodes. Do reactors explode? Just ask Ed or Mojo about exploding reactors, its not pretty.


Don

 

[Jan]

In this case the co2 is going to build up until the reactor explodes. Do reactors explode? Just ask Ed or Mojo about exploding reactors, its not pretty.

yikes!

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Don, my Korallin has two exit points. One for the standard effluent, and another as a bleed off valve for the top. I am using an aqua lifter per instructions but also own a peri pump. I assume you would have me hook the peri up to the bleed valve on the top in lieu of the standard effluent line and remove all check valves? Have you ever modded a Korallin before like this before or seen one done?

 

[DonW]

Don, my Korallin has two exit points. One for the standard effluent, and another as a bleed off valve for the top. I am using an aqua lifter per instructions but also own a peri pump. I assume you would have me hook the peri up to the bleed valve on the top in lieu of the standard effluent line and remove all check valves? Have you ever modded a Korallin before like this before or seen one done?

I assume the bleed off is just a purge so that you can remove air then close it off. No, hook the peri inlet directly to the effluent line it will suck water through the what used to be the feed line. This way you end up with a negative pressure in the reactor. A negetive pressure cannot air (co2)lock like the korallins are prone to.

Don

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Time to get busy modding the Carx
As Gilda and her father used to say, "Its Always Something."

Don, thanks again so much for your expert advise.