Advice please on solonoid valve for Calc Rx

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This is an interesting discussion on Zeovit.com about feed pumps:

http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2031

This discussion confirms for me that I should buy a peristaltic pump, AND get a more reliable regulator. The needlewheel + stonger push-type pump does not seem to be the ticket for some of these folks...still constant adjustment of bubble count, etc.

Suggestions welcome on good quality peri pumps and regulators. This thread has references to grotech pumps and Aquamedic regulators as good ones...do you agree?

(Don, in case you are wondering, I am not using Zeovit at this time. I understand that my tank is not stable enough.)
 
This is an interesting discussion on Zeovit.com about feed pumps:

http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2031

This discussion confirms for me that I should buy a peristaltic pump, AND get a more reliable regulator. The needlewheel + stonger push-type pump does not seem to be the ticket for some of these folks...still constant adjustment of bubble count, etc.

Suggestions welcome on good quality peri pumps and regulators. This thread has references to grotech pumps and Aquamedic regulators as good ones...do you agree?

(Don, in case you are wondering, I am not using Zeovit at this time. I understand that my tank is not stable enough.)


Just depends on how much you want to spend. Omega $80 pumps are reliable but they are bare. APT pumps are a decent choice and can be had with a case and adjustable. I would stay away from anything made for this hobby just due to the fact that they are overpriced.

What bubble count are you trying to achieve with the regulator and do you have a check valve on the co2 tube?

Don
 
Don, I have never been able to tie the bubble count to a desirable and steady Alk level so it's hard to answer that question. The target is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 bubble every 2 seconds (confidence level of this estimate: low)
 
In your bubble counter there is a tube. Is that 1/4 tube of a 1/8 tube. This makes a big difference. If its 1/8" I would not blame the regulator just yet.

Don
 
I think what I need is a variable speed peri pump that can run between 50ml/min and 100ml/min

Can the APT do that and what does APT stand for?
 
In the bubble counter the tube that the bubbles come out of looks to be 1/4" certainly not 1/8"
 
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Mark, are you out there and can you answer Don's questions? I don't know the answers....
 
yes to both don.

So my guess is that it(bubble counter) is placed close to the circulation pump outlet? If this is the case you have two pressures working against each other by design. A peripump will fix this by putting a negetive pressure on the entire reactor. Make sure that the co2 tube goes straight up muc higher than the reactor instead of flopped over and the check valve is far away from the bubble counter.

Don
 
Jan,
Don has given you some good advice, (me too, cause I didnt know that about the peri pumps being a better "draw" as opposed to "feeding" the reactor).

However, it occurs to me that if you understood Calcium Reactors, you might be able diagnose problems better and understand what Don is saying a little easier...
If I'm wrong, I apologize....

Basically, a calcium reactor is just a tube with water, co2, and some sort of calcium media. Co2 lowers the pH of the water in the tube to the point that it dissolves the media which releases the calcium bound in the media. One of the benefits of doing this that it makes your tank more stable by boosting your Alk levels, which in turn makes your tank's pH more stable as well.

The two things that dictate what your reactor is doing are:

1....effluent rate, (how fast the water in your reactor is moving through it)
2....Co2 rate, (bubble count)

A larger effluent rate, (faster turnover rate through the reactor) means a lower Alk level in your effluent, (think about it...less contact time in the reactor itself means less time to pick up Alk ions and Calcium ions).

A faster bubble count, (more Co2 injected into the reactor), means a lower pH level in the reactor so your media is going to dissolve faster, your effluent is going to have a higher level of Ca ions and Alk ions.

The trick is to balance the two (effluent and bubble count) so that they give you the optimum levels...

Too fast an effluent rate and your not going to get much benefit from the reactor because the the pH level wont drop down enough to dissolve the media. Too slow an effluent rate, your pH will drop so low that the media turns to mush and clogs up the reactor so that no water can pass through it.

The same things happen w/ too many/not enough CO2 bubbles....
So the effluent rate and the bubble count really work together. Hope that makes sense. If you knew all of that already, and I just wasted your time, I apologize...it wasnt meant to be insulting, I've just found that I can follow along better if I understand what the equipment really does.

I currently have Geo 612 calcium reactor, fed by a Maxijet 900. It was designed to work w/ a Maxijet 1200, but my MJ1200 began shorting out...so it got replaced by the 900. I had a crappy unknown make CO2 gauge, needle valve, and solenoid that came w/ a used Calcium reactor I bought from another hobbyist as a total package....it worked well enough, even though the solenoid had a 12 inch long power cord, the gauges were broken...needles moved when there was Co2 pressure....but never moved past the midway point even with newly filled Co2 tank. The needle valve finally quit maintaining a steady bubble count, so I bought a RF Deluxe CO2 Regulator with Solenoid.
Its a great package and something I should have bought earlier....

Nick
 
A larger effluent rate, (faster turnover rate through the reactor) means a lower Alk level in your effluent, (think about it...less contact time in the reactor itself means less time to pick up Alk ions and Calcium ions).

A faster bubble count, (more Co2 injected into the reactor), means a lower pH level in the reactor so your media is going to dissolve faster, your effluent is going to have a higher level of Ca ions and Alk ions.

The trick is to balance the two (effluent and bubble count) so that they give you the optimum levels...

Too fast an effluent rate and your not going to get much benefit from the reactor because the the pH level wont drop down enough to dissolve the media. Too slow an effluent rate, your pH will drop so low that the media turns to mush and clogs up the reactor so that no water can pass through it.

The same things happen w/ too many/not enough CO2 bubbles....

Hi Nick. Thankyou for taking the time to type this all out for me. By coincidence, I was just joking around with Mark R. yesterday that somebody needs to write a "Calcium Reactors for Dummies" book. :) I did understand the raw mechanics of the reactor but I didn't get the dynamics of the faster/slower bubble count and effluent rate. That was very helpful.

What you said about a faster effluent rate resulting in a lower alk rate in the effluent, does make sense to me. Less contact time to pick up Ca and Alk ions. I find it interesting that my Ca levels have maintained nicely at 420-435 but my Alk doesn't maintain at all. I'm not sure how that fits into the puzzle.

From what Don was saying I felt that the first thing I needed to do was get a different pump, a peristaltic one, to increase the effluent rate. But actually, I don't want to lower my Alk levels so this plan will not be a magic bullet. I still think I should get an adjustable, reliable peristaltic pump though just because I don't trust the minijet 606 to keep things stable in the long run.

A good quality regulator/needle wheel/solonoid package is going to be key though so that my bubble count doesn't drift and I can dial in and have my setting stay where I put it. I didn't realize that my bubble count was drifting but Mark feels that it is. I guess that makes sense in terms of my need to constantly tweak the bubble count to try and keep my Alk level steady. Thanks very much for the recommendation of the regulator package--I appreciate it.
 
What you said about a faster effluent rate resulting in a lower alk rate in the effluent, does make sense to me. Less contact time to pick up Ca and Alk ions. I find it interesting that my Ca levels have maintained nicely at 420-435 but my Alk doesn't maintain at all. I'm not sure how that fits into the puzzle.

Okay,
In gross generalized/simplified terms, the easiest way to look at alkalinity is like a buffer. It helps to prevent swings in pH. Swings in pH are not good. A higher alkalinity allows a more stable pH for the tank. A lower alkalinity, allows pH to move more easily. Once alkalinity is exhausted, (very low), then the pH of the water can swing rapidly. For frame of reference, pH is measured on an exponential scale, with 8.0, being 10 times higher than 7.0. Ideal pH for reef tanks is between 8.1 - and 8.5 as per Delbeek and Sprung in "The Reef Aquarium Vol 3". Most people I know try and keep it between 8.1 - 8.4.

What is important to figure out is why is your alkalinity swinging like that...
What all do you have in the tank? In my tank, I have relatively small acro's and not too many of them, but I have two clams, one Crocea, and one Derasa....and the Derasa is a calcium/Alk devouring monster..

Nick
 
What all do you have in the tank? In my tank, I have relatively small acro's and not too many of them, but I have two clams, one Crocea, and one Derasa....and the Derasa is a calcium/Alk devouring monster..

I have 3 SPS colonies, ~35 SPS frags/mini-colonies, 1 baby maxima clam, 2 clams of 4-5" each (Maxima & Crocea). The rest are LPS.

My ph swings from a low of about 7.99 to a high of about 8.23 per day. My target alk levels are 6.5-8.0 dhk.
 
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It sounds like you have fairly high bioload of critters that use Calcium in the tank, which could quite easily be the reason your alkalinity is being depleted.
Once you get your calcium reactor fine tuned, your levels should be more stable.

Just get your reactor dialed in...

Nick
 
It sounds like you have fairly high bioload of critters that use Calcium in the tank, which could quite easily be the reason your alkalinity is being depleted.

whoops...does not compute. :confused: If my bioload has such calcium consumers why does my calcium stay steady but not my alk?
 
Is your calcium reactor adding anything to the tank?
The same critters that utilize calcium will also deplete your alkalinity.
Do you currently add any supplements to the tank at all?
When was the last time you tested your calcium and alkalinity? What was your calcium level before your reactor started acting up?
When was the last time you did a water change, and what salt do you use?

Nick
 
whoops...does not compute. :confused: If my bioload has such calcium consumers why does my calcium stay steady but not my alk?

Test the alk on your reactor effluent. If its high then you just have a system that depletes alk faster than ca. If its low then the reactor isnt doing anything.

Don
 
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