Alright lets have it out....fast or slow...how does your sump flow?

[Scooterman]

That Tidal flow or wave action loss effects every tank, sump or not we can't duplicate continuous water replacement, if we could then we wouldn't need a sump LOL! So high flow idea only works under the right design in place, as mentioned it depends on what your after to achieve. So what it the best way to achieve it would be the question, weather or not slow or high flow mattered.

 

[mcoomer]

Run or walk in the rain? - a good poll:
Do You Get Wetter if You Run or Walk in the Rain?

Wouldn't work. As with most situations, there are always exceptions to the rule. If I run fast I'd get drenched. Of course, fast for me is 14.290789 secs through the 40, in part because it takes me 6 seconds to put down my beer and get up off the couch. If Barry Sanders, Herschel Walker, Walter Payton, or Deion Sanders are running they're quick enough to run between the raindrops. Those cats could run through Hurricane Katrina and come out dry on the other side, hence, the poll question is flawed.

 

[thatguy559]

it doesnt matter how fast you run the point is you wouldnt get as wet as if you walked...


so using that theory the slower is better (in terms of skimmer contact time)

not sure if that make sense


okay let me see if i understand this right

lets say someone has about 100g of water in their system (Tank A) with a 3600gph return pump so tank turn over rate is about 36 times in 1 hour

same 100g (Tank B) of water with a 1000gph return pump their tank turn over rate is 10 time in 1 hour.

so over a 24hour period tank A has a 864 times turn over rate and tank B only has 240 times turn over rate. this leads me to believe that tank A would be more efficient at cleaning the tank via sump and skimmer.

 

[TJL]

So... one more time, if we remove all thoery and stick to facts IMO & IME nutrient export is all about contact time and we all seem to agree on this correct ???

Mechanical = Skimmers & Reactors GFO etc. strictly depends on thier design and how much water its pump is pushing through them for this ratio. We all agree on this ??? This being said it does not matter if there is 5-7x flow or 25-30x+ flow through sump it does not effect performance of these units.

Biological = Macro's in fuge also contact time, so as long as they are in the systems water volume they have contact. These algaes absorb the nitrates through thier cell walls on a microscopic level they do not hunt them like Lions do Wildebeasts stalking the slow and the weak.

IMO higher flow rate sump/fuges are cleaner and have healthier macro and in my personal experience also have greater/healthier pod populations which more frequently get swept into main system. They also add significantly to overall system flow so why would you not have as high of flow rate as your overflow will safely handle. To address Skimmy's remark on power savings ther are several low wattage high GPH pumps out there so your really looking at the wattage difference between a low flow pump and a high flow pump so its really not to much more wattage for greatly increasing your flow-rate.

My $0.16 worth, Todd

 

[mojoreef]

Mechanical = Skimmers & Reactors GFO etc. strictly depends on thier design and how much water its pump is pushing through them for this ratio. We all agree on this ??? This being said it does not matter if there is 5-7x flow or 25-30x+ flow through sump it does not effect performance of these units.

Yep I agree

Biological = Macro's in fuge also contact time, so as long as they are in the systems water volume they have contact. These algaes absorb the nitrates through thier cell walls on a microscopic level they do not hunt them like Lions do Wildebeasts stalking the slow and the weak.

Yes and no

IMO higher flow rate sump/fuges are cleaner and have healthier macro and in my personal experience also have greater/healthier pod populations which more frequently get swept into main system.

I think this would fall into the opposite arguement TJL, If they are clean then you are not gathering up the settlement of detritus/ect . So if its not falling outh their then it is falling out in the display. SOme folks might want that some might not?

They also add significantly to overall system flow so why would you not have as high of flow rate as your overflow will safely handle.

Well this is a choice right?? Myself I perfer slow so I have chosen to not have my return pump be intrigal to the overall flow, I just want it to enter as far away from the overflows as it can.

mojo

 

[mojoreef]

okay let me see if i understand this right

thatguy you dont have that right. with what you are doing you are assuming that the water flowing through the sump is new to the sump each time, but in reality it doesnt work like that. What you have to assume is that only a portion of the water being run through the sump is fresh to it. Their is actually a formula for it.

(tank gallons/return pump)9.2 = the amount all the water in the tank will see the sump.

So in your example: (100/3200)=.03125 * 9.2 = .28 hours Or 99.99% of all the water in the tank has been through the sump in 29 minutes?? This formula works for all equipment in the sump.

Mojo

 

[TJL]

Hey Mike, yes it is all about choice and like lighting there are several ways that will work. The one addition I could have stated about higher flow creating a cleaner healthier sump/fuge would be that it definitely works better with a higher bio-load of corals/filter feeders and/or a filter socks to collect the detritis. So when I specifically asked 'Why would you not have a high as flow rate as your overflow will safely handle ?' it was to get a direct response such as yours to that it was your choice not a right or wrong. I truely believe that the most important thing that us 'Old Salts' have to offer from are years of experience is that there is really very little Black/White in answers or particular variations of equipment to keep a successful Marine Aquarium or Reeftank.

Cheers All, Todd

 

[thatguy559]

okay so with your formula you say that the higher gph pump will clean the entire tank in 29 mins? and the lower gph is .92 hours so 1 1/2 hours? well i still think that faster flow through the sump is better with the equation.


as far as the refugium goes i have a 1" "T" off of my 2" drain in the sump. it is free flowing, no valve, no filter sock and my chaeto ball started off as a softball size (nov) and now its about the size of a basketball (jan)

 

[mojoreef]

I truely believe that the most important thing that us 'Old Salts' have to offer from are years of experience is that there is really very little Black/White in answers or particular variations of equipment to keep a successful Marine Aquarium or Reeftank.

WHo you calling old pal!!!:noidea: lol I agree Todd. The science/mechanics and so are always somewhat carved in stone, so its going to depend on how you approach the issue. For me as I mentioned I have done it a number of different ways and I pefer to line it all up properly as in all the processed water (from skimmer/ozone/algae and so on) all individually are added to the chamber that takes the water back to the tank. And that it is not kind of a free for all where processed and unprocessed get blended then put into the next device and so on until it is put back, I have never been able to achieve that with a fast flow.

okay so with your formula you say that the higher gph pump will clean the entire tank in 29 mins? and the lower gph is .92 hours so 1 1/2 hours? well i still think that faster flow through the sump is better with the equation.

No not cleaner brother, just that 99.99% of the water will have passed throught the sump.

as far as the refugium goes i have a 1" "T" off of my 2" drain in the sump. it is free flowing, no valve, no filter sock and my chaeto ball started off as a softball size (nov) and now its about the size of a basketball (jan)

Yea I wouldnt dought, chaeto is one of those algae types that is not as effected by contact time.
I am not saying you are wrong and someone else is right my friend. I am saying its all up to what you are trying to accomplish. For chaeto flow is not to much of an issue, For me and maybe some others I am trying to line up my processors as I mentioned above, that I like the fact my detritus settles out in the sump, it means I can completely remove it with out trying to bind it to an organism? its just gone. so I run mine slow. SO it in the appoach if that makes any sence

Mojo

 

[ReefLogic]

wow....there are a ton of valid points, experience, and knowledge being posted in here. I am following this thread intently.

 

[Krish]

And Krish the guy that runs in the rain gets wetter, :yo:

Mojo

Yea, so they say, but only slightly.

 

[Krish]

So does this mean I am the only ding dong who ran both slow and fast??? :rofl: