Alveopora Question and Help...

[Coraline2020]

Hi Everyone...

I currently have a branching Alveopora in a 24G Aquapod with 70HQI and a 2" sandbed. The aquarium has been running for approx. 6 months. Here are my tank specs:

Spec Gravity 1.025
pH 8.3
Nitrites and Ammonia 0
Nitrates 5-10 for the last 2 months (although has been as high as 80) ouch!
Temp. 77-79
Calcium 420
dkh 9
Additional AquaClear 50 for flow.

Inhabs: Ocellaris Clown, Longnose Hawk, Springer's Dottyback, Yellow Watchman, Cleaner Shrimp, and small cleaner crew, several Zoa frags, green star polyp, clove polyp, small yellow leather frag, and small kenya tree frag.

Alveopora is currently on the sand bed (approx 18" below light) with some shading provided by ledge of LR above in an area of moderate flow. Photoperiod is currently 12 hours.

OK, so here's the situation...
All seemed to be going great with this coral until 2 days ago...Polyps were fully extended daily. Two nights ago I did my weekly 20% water change and sand bed vacuum, and as usual the coral closed up. The folowing morning only half of the coral opened and even that side was not as spectacular as usual. It's been two days of the same coral behavior, and I am at a loss. The tissue on the branch that is NOT opening during the day looks "swollen". I'm not sure if this makes sense, but hopefully it will. Obviously lights are out on the tank so I have no pictures to post, but could post tomorrow if helpful.

Sorry this is so long, but wanted to give as much info as possible.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks, Liz

 

[charlesr1958]

Since you had done a water change and disturbed the sandbed, the "swelling" of the coral's tissue could be just a "flushing" reaction by the coral to being in "different" water. I think it is more of an acclimation reaction again and not something that I would be overly concerned with. A few more days should see the coral recover.

Chuck

 

[Coraline2020]

Since you had done a water change and disturbed the sandbed, the "swelling" of the coral's tissue could be just a "flushing" reaction by the coral to being in "different" water. I think it is more of an acclimation reaction again and not something that I would be overly concerned with. A few more days should see the coral recover.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck...This morning it looks a little better...I can see a few of the polyps peeking out on the "swollen" side. I'll just watch it over the next few days.

Liz

 

[Anthony Calfo]

I'm more concerned about the long term survival of this very weak/passive coral in such a small tank with so many other VERY noxious (chemically) corals. The star polyp alone will (chemically) kill Alveopora in time. The zoanthids and Kenya tree are just allelopathically brutal icing on the cake You will see soon (if not already) the accumulated effects of the toxic soup from these competivie corals. The only way to stave it off is larger weekly (50-100%) water changes and/or ozone. My advice is to thin the corals to a more compatible grouping.

 

[Coraline2020]

Anthony,

Thanks for your reply and suggestions. The Alveopora has recovered and is behaving normally again, but I am concerned about your comments. I certainly want to be a good steward of my charges, so I guess my first question is the obvious... What are the symptoms of "toxic soup" you mentioned? Since all corals seem to be "behaving normally" and growing I'm not sure I know what to look for if there is a problem as you suggest exsists and/or will come. I have spent litterally hours searching sites like WetWebMedia only to become overwhelmed with the various recommendations, suggestions given in FAQ, and shear volume of info contained there. I had purchased Julian Sprung's book: Corals, A Quick Reference Guide several months ago and have found it to be helpful. I have also recently purchased your book on Coral Propogation (should be here by Friday) and am looking forward to reading it. Are there other reference materials that you would suggest?

Now, back to the tank and the immediate situation I am facing...I am a huge Zoo fan, and really prefer "softies" over LPS/SPS (the Alveopora is the exception in the tank). How do I compile a "compatible grouping" of corals? What suggestions do you have on coral combinations for my aquarium?

I know this may seem a "dumb" question, but how do you effectively do a 50-100% water change weekly? Is it the same as doing four 25% changes over several days, or are you suggesting a literal 100% one time change?

I am committed to doing what is neccessary for my tank and its inhabitants, but in a hobby where you ask 5 people the same question and get 10 different answers, it is easy to get confused, overwhelmed and frustrated!

I am always eager to learn from those that have gone before me and accept constuctive criticism well, so let me know what you think. I look forward to reading your answers and suggestions.

Again, thank you for your time and replies,
Liz

 

[Scooterman]

There are charts on doing wc's, if you did two small 25% you don't get a 50% change but rather somewhere between 25 & less than 50% because you instantly mix the old with the new with each change, so doing a 50% change in small amounts would take a large number of changes to get that 50%. I think the reasoning it to eliminate the toxicity of the other corals you have, thus your alveopora will do better in the long run.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

I do appreciate your awareness and desire to learn my friend... please do not be overwhelmed by the info that is out there. Keep in mind that a majority of what you find on the Web is unsubstantiated opinion... and often not accurate at that. Or at least without adequate perspective/experience.

But also... do error on the safe side and understock instead of buying excessive or incompatibel corals. You likely already have too many corals to adequately allow for even one full year of growth in this aquarium. And even if not, I am sure you have a quite unnatural mix.

As for guidance on whos the badest of the bad, you already have a good reference: Julians Quick Reference Guide details coral aggression on a scale of 1-10 for each genus/group.

You can also fine a consensus sometimes in good threads online. If you take a look at the sticky atop my forum called "Fav links..." you will see under "discussions" that there are threads on many topics including thoise you seek: aggression... allelopathy... and biotopes (the real solution to better compatible mixes in aquaria).

I'd also suggest John Tullock's Reef book (see recommended books in that same sticky mentioned above).

And lastly, aboev all... do reckon how many times you want (or don't want) to be handling your corals... pruning them monthly, bimonthly just to prevent them from killing each other, and putting yourself at risk in the process by toxins (like palytoxin in your zoanthids... potentially fatal in some species. Do research See my palytoxin poisoning story in Book of Coral Propagation)

There are some great resources here on this site my friend... the amazing reference/ID galleries from Veron and Randall... the archived best of threads from many forums, etc.

enjoy the journey!

 

[Anthony Calfo]

ah, yes... and my comments on water changes are many... on wetwebmedia.com, on reefcentral.com, etc.

I do nearly 100% water changes weekly on my smaller tanks to spare the need for excessive supplementation (see-saw rollercoaster dosing) and expensive skimmers. I'd recommend large weekly water changes for you here (at least 50% weekly) to maintain superp water quality and relax on bottled supplements.

 

[Coraline2020]

Thanks again for your imput and concern...I will continue to research and learn. Please take comfort in knowing that while I may have an unnatural mix of corals (not intentional, BTW) I have been careful to only purchase frags and NOT full colonies to allow for what I believed to be adequate grow room and minimal "pruning" and handling. Unlike many of the tanks I see in the galleries of forums like this one, my tank looks rather sparse.

Also, I too am of the belief that "dosing" your tank is in most cases unneccessary and potentially harmful (especially when you have to "guess" at the proper amounts due to water volume, or lack there of), and thus do not typically "dose". I have found that just doing my regular 20-25% weekly water changes replenish trace elements quite well. (As indicated by my bi-weekly testing.)

At this point, would you suggest that I find a new home for the Alveopora given my other coral inhabs? OR, find another home for the "baddest" of the softies I have and keep the Alveopora?

Inhabs listed below:
Clove Polyp, GSP, Yellow Fiji Leather, several morphs of Zoanthid, Pulsing Xenia, Single Mushroom, Kenya Tree...(All of these listed corals are very small, none over 2 inches with at least 4+ inches of space around each.)

I do plan to start a 90+G tank in the next 6-9 months and could move the Alveopora to that tank, but do NOT want to jeapordize its health in the interim.

Thanks again for all your help...it is GREATLY appreciated!!! And now, I'm off the sticky posts you mentioned earlier to continue my education.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

my vote is for you to simply ditch the worst of the worst: GSP and Kenya tree. They are the most noxious by far.

We all tend to run mixed tanks and all deal with allelopathy variously. Its just that we don't want to allow the scales to tip too severely in any direction... hence removing the most chemically aggressive species here. When they are out and you've done a big water change or two, you will see a difference in the health and growth of the other corals (unless the current frags are tiny in which case you get to dodge a bullet by removing them early)

 

[Coraline2020]

Thanks Anthony...

I was hoping you would "let" me keep the Alveopora...it's my mom's favorite, and I'd hate to have to "committ" her over losing Al. Anyway, I will start looking for new homes for the other two with my local reef club. I'm sure I won't have any difficulty with that since the price is right!!

Liz

 

[Anthony Calfo]

heehee... no worries my friend. And truly, most folks can keep a remarkably dense and unnatural mix of corals long term as long as they prune regularly, use ozone daily and keep up with large weekly water changes. By such means you can finesse the other compromises.

 

[Coraline2020]

There are charts on doing wc's, if you did two small 25% you don't get a 50% change but rather somewhere between 25 & less than 50% because you instantly mix the old with the new with each change, so doing a 50% change in small amounts would take a large number of changes to get that 50%. I think the reasoning it to eliminate the toxicity of the other corals you have, thus your alveopora will do better in the long run.

Thanks Scooter...

My apologies for the original wording (it was early) I understand that four 25%changes does not equal 100%, but I was a little shocked at the 100% WC concept. Just to show my ignorance, I would have thought it more stressful on the corals to be "out of water" for the length of time necessary to accomplish this feat than the chemicals diluted over the course of several days. Live and learn!!!

Thanks for your imput!

Liz