amino acids

[Skimmy]

hi all!

i just wanted to ask boomer if he could please explain to me about amino acids in reef tanks,
i know there are good amino acids and ones that might negativly affect corals, and i see that more and more people are using amino acid products off the shelf from health food stores, is there a benifit to sticking with the more expensive amino acid products designed for aquaria as opposed to products designed for humans?
and, how do they work?
i sell these products and would like to better understand them other than just reading the label.

 

[Curtswearing]

I'm unwilling to make a judgement one way or the other because I have no idea what AA's are in the products you sell. If you have access to a college university, read everything you can by Dr. Alina Szmant as she the foremost authority IMO of amino acids re: coral reefs.

Here's a link with some of her papers. http://www.uncwil.edu/bio/faculty_szmant.htm Here's a great article that is on the internet. http://www.biochemj.org/bj/322/0213/bj3220213.htm

I will say this, corals can manufacture many of their own amino acids for their own use so if you overdose or you dose the wrong ones that aren't considered "Essential", you're merely adding nutrients to your tank.

You can also subscribe to Coral-List as there are often discussions on related topics. http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list

Here's several more articles and abstracts.

 

[twilliard]

So Curt do you think that there is no definitive answer to the use of amino acids?
I started AA's last weekend and finally I am starting to get my color back in my corals. But I am not sure if its the nutrients from the AA's or me feeding 3 times a day.

Do you know of an article that is in plain english??? IE something a normal person can understand.

 

[Curtswearing]

I played around with the human amino acids a couple of years back with my SPS prop tank before there were any threads recommending that people do that. I was just curious and did it. (I've done a lot of weird experiments due to curiosity....I'm glad I'm not a cat ).

However, I did not conduct any type of study to verify it's usefulness or lack of usefulness. It seemed like it helped to me but other things I've done have seemed useful as well.

In short, unless I've done at least a minimal amount of scientific procedure, I won't recommend anything unless I can grab some articles from credible sources who've done the research. You'll never see a post from me that says, "I started using XYZ product last week and my tank never looked better". The only product that I've ever given a review like that was for frozen Cyclopeeze and I had already done substantial research on it before I purchased it.

Do you know of an article that is in plain english??? IE something a normal person can understand.

Not really. This subject is VERY complicated but I'll take a shot though.

Plain English.....Glucose (sugar) is produced by the symbiotic zoox (algae) inside the coral and the sugars produced from photosynthesis are used in the synthesis (creation of something from two or more other things) of many of the amino acids that corals require. They don't get all of their needed amino acids that way but they ingest a lot of bacterioplankton and obtain most others in that way. They are able to utilize free form amino acids from the water column as well as long as it's essential. In a health food store, free form amino acids would be preceeded by an "L". I.e. L-Creatine, L-Arginine, etc. but if the coral doesn't need it, it's nothing but additional nutrient additions to a closed system.

 

[twilliard]

Thanks Kurt!

English is great

 

[Ed Hahn]

When Jake Adams was in town for Meeting at Shark Reef. He shared his thoughts on Amino Acids with me and Dang. Jake said he felt amino acids such as Salifert Amino acids were essential to coral health. Jake told me once you did them you would not turn back. He said the coral responds better in growth and health.

I know that is one persons oppinion. But I want to believe it.

 

[Damsel13]

I am glad you are not a cat either!

 

[knowcrap]

I wanted to re-hash this as I have been using the Seachem Reef Plus Amino Acids, just finished my first bottle, and wanted to get more information...if there is more available.

Talking to someone today (he has a PhD in maraine biology, who am I to question that?) it was noted that Amino Acids aren't free flowing in the ocean but rather are always bound to something else. In this case it was questioned as to whether or not a coral had the mecanism to absorb a free flowing Amino Acid in the water column.

Personally I am seeing good results in my tank so far...but that could be from any number of things including keeping my hands/arms out of the tank to stablized water parameters to the new Seachem Reef Salt.

Can anyone out there answer, or at least shed some light? I see what Curt is saying but is there any scientific evidence or research either way?

 

[Snowboarda42]

I've been using ReefPlus for a few weeks (dosed 1-2x a week) and I've already noticed better coloring in all my corals. My Bali Green Slimer is brighter, both pink and orange Montipora Digita's have more vivid colors, my Pink Pocillopora has more polyps, and I see better growth in all of them. Even my Montipora Capricornis, Bird's Nest, and both my Acropora Millepora look better and have more visible polyps. The only crazy growth I have noticed is in my Bali Green Slimer, but that grows like crazy normally.

For the price ($15) and the dosage (2 Capfuls/40G) and Rate (1-2x/Week), I can say I am happy with this product.

 

[Skimmy]

well, mabye we can get boomer to chime in and tell us how they work...
i know they work, i've used them and had excellent results first hand...
i would just like to understand the process a little better

 

[DonW]

Aminos are a guessing game you really have no clue what is using the additive. It may be the bacteria, this could help with water quality thus make a person believe that the coral is getting the amios and improving. Testing is one of those things that is very expensive and not within the reach of most including labs studying corals. To get anywhere close to accurate results you would have to set up radiation markers and perform long term tissue testing.
But I would say if they are working for a system and are making the system do what you want it to to then just go for it, proof or not.

Don

 

[Boomer]

And on that note I agree with Curt and Don. We do not know how or what is going on chemically and biologically, as far as adding it to a reef tank.

This is about it

Organic Compounds in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/rhf/index.php

http://www.uni-koeln.de/math-nat-fak/zoologie/oekologie/marine-oekophysiologie/research.html

Finally, I actually replied to this post back in May but it looks like I never posted it. I pretty much agreed with what Curt had to say.

 

[Boomer]

Curt

Biosynthesis of 'essential' amino acids by scleractinian corals
Lisa M. FITZGERALD* and Alina M. SZMANT†

I use to know Lisa she is an old friend of mine from many years ago :lol: Her Ph.D was on Amino -Acid receptors in scleractinian corals. I never looked at the authors till now

 

[Ed Hahn]

Thanks Boomer

http://www.biochemj.org/bj/322/0213/bj3220213.htm