Anthony, bta help needed

[william holland]

Hey Anthony,
I've been running a thread on Reef Central with no conclusion.
Heres the problem, 3/4 of my BTA's mouth is extremely swollen. Too the point it has a hard time eating.
I've had it for over a year as well as a cyano problem, about a month and a half ago I added a larger skimmer as well as cut down my flow (mag 18 to mag 12 on a closed loop in a 46g, too much velocity) and did a bulb change from 10k to 20k, that's about when it started to swell.
Cyano is now gone with the addition of the skimmer (Jason M from lmas contributed his old downdraft), ph up to 8.3-8.4 from high 7's. Coral polyps are out 90% of the time rather than 50% and growth has picked up. About two weeks ago I cut my lights back as well as changed from 20k to 6500k and pulled my clowns from the display. I have increased BTA's feedings to 1/4" sliversides every other day from 1/2 inch shrimp once a week. If it eats, it eats, if it doeasn't I pull it out. It grabs and attempt to eat 100% of the time, consumption is only about 75% of the time.
I have been told everything from starvation to bacterial infection, any ideas?
Perameters are:
Salinity 1.026
amonia 0
nitrite 0
natrate 0
ph 8.3-8.4 lights on 8.1-8.2 lights out
Alk 6 meq

Did a 60% water change last weekend with no change.
Pics are two weeks ago on the first and friday on the third. I thought about fragging to save but am hesitant in case of bacterial infection.

 

[william holland]

I have also reoriented it's rock as it refused to move around to get better light it stretched around the top of the rock to get light instead.

 

[steve-s]

Just a little bump and info for when Anthony responds. From what I can see, the largest issue here may be stress related. Continual changes in habitat/routine (light and flow) and possible amiss tank parameters (chemistry) . Anemones have a great displeasure for change of anykind.
Did this "blister" appear recently or has it always been a concern?
How often have you directly "intervened" and moved or handled the anemone?
What prompted the change in feeding schedule?
What intensity is the MH and what depth is the 46 gal?

Another possible problem is a 6 mEq/l aklalinity reading unless that's a typo?
Also the pH reading is backwards unless your dripping kalk at night. pH should rise throughout the day and fall off at night not the other way round. If drippping kalk, what is the Ca/Mg at?
What other sessile/mobile invertebrates are present in the tank and are there any fish since the clowns were evicted?
Do you use carbon or other water clarifiers?

Cheers
Steve

 

[william holland]

Yes, typo. 6 drops= 3 meq. Ph 8.1-8.2 at night 8.3-8.4 during the day. Never handled him, just reoriented the rock last weekend, been in the same place and orientation for over a year. In Febuary needed more flow so I bumped from a mag 12 to mag 18 on closed loop. Had a sand storm (mild but still rescaped my sandbed), everything settled back down but BTA would no longer fully expand. Left like this for a couple of weeks figuring it would move if it didn't like the flow, never moved. Dropped my pump back to original configuration, same time changed to new bulb (8 mo's on the old one, also bumped from 10k to 20 and dropped actinics).
About a month ago BTA's mouth swelled up a little and my clowns pestered the snot out of it, I figured they had just stole a piece of shrimp from it while it was being consumed and it's mouth might have gotten hurt.
This was shortly after I switched from a needle wheel to downdraft skimmer.
The "Blister" has since grown and it's starting to look scraggly so about last weekend it was suggested to me to leave the lights off for a couple of days and feed every other day, having a healthy clam and healthy sps I didn't want to do that so in turn I ran the week with 80 watts 6500k. Colors in everything have improved even the BTA but looking more scraggly accept for about the first couple hours after lights on, looks healthy.
Wrong color lights?
Overskimming? Skimmer still pulls nasty gunk daily.
Oh yeah, tank is 18" tall and BTA has always resided at about 8" from top. Run carbon up untill I pulled the clowns through a hot magnum filter. Had to put it on the qt tank.

 

[steve-s]

Wrong color lights?
Overskimming? Skimmer still pulls nasty gunk daily.

Has it shown any sign of the mouth splitting or does it continually try to hide?

Actually I don't think it's anything specific but rather an accumulation of changes too quickly. Anemones especially need time to adjust slowly to anything that may be altered within their environment. Even altering the position of a single rock on the otherside of the tank can change the flow. That can often be enough to make them wander. Sounds a bit far fetched but it's quite true. With the amount/speed of changes you've made, the anemone is stressed.

The best thing you can do is stop making changes and allow things to settle down. Even return things to their previous condition. Reduce the flow on your return and instead of a jump in flow, gradully increase the flow with the use of a ballvalve if the overflow will allow it. Run your lighting as normal but screen/shade it so the animals can be conditioned to the new spectrum. Usually decreases are more of a concern but this can easily be a source of stress as well. Anything you do must be done with slow careful attention to the needs of the anemone first.

This is why a species specific tank is so important for these types of Cnidarians. They do not cohabitate well with corals/other species and their care requirements are usually incompatible.

As for the feedings, instead of the silversides, try lightly chopped scallop meat or enriched mysis. Anything small really. Large food type will tax the energy reserves of the anemone and actually add to it's stress.

Oh yeah, tank is 18" tall and BTA has always resided at about 8" from top.

But what intensity?

Run carbon up untill I pulled the clowns through a hot magnum filter. Had to put it on the qt tank.

If I'm reading that correctly... ewww!

I would really run carbon 24/7 in any tank you keep but more importantly for those containing any kind of sessile/motile invertebrate. They have a multitude of offensive/defensive weapons that will harm each other. Skimming will help remove some as will water changes but crbon is that "saving grace" that you should not be without.

Cheers
Steve

 

[william holland]

Pulled it last night and put it into QT. It will have carbon 24-7 as well as 6500k lights. Yes indeed it was a mad stressfull move and I was on pins and needles for most of the night but as much as I would hate to loose my BTA I would hate even more to come home and wish I had moved it before it knocked out my whole tank that day. If it does well in the QT and pulls back I may verywell make the QT a seperate system.

Eveything was put back the same when it first showed stress and did not adjust, all accept the lighting. My tank is a 46 lit by a single 400w that is 15" above the tank. I ran at one point two 175's but needed more light so I swapped to the 400 running 10k with excellant results and BTA finally found a spot and stuck to it. When I got it originally it was under rough conditions lit by vho's and was so dark brown it was almost purple. Over about a month it's color had lightend and took on a green hue and in Nevember it split.
Feeling my tank was too small for more than one, I passed on to a good friend the clone. I guessed it to be the clone as it moved and this one is still in the original spot. His BTA is now three times the size and brilliantly colored, mine is still the same size after the split. All but my clam and a couple sps frags I have gotten from his tank and other than lighting (and his massive refugium) I mimic his every effort. Corals are growing at the same speed as his and have the same coloring and expansion, all accept this BTA. His system is a 125 lit by 2@250 and 2@400 10k halides accented with VHO actinics 8" above the tank, the clone resides just inches (maybe 4) from the surface, on top of a rock facing up at all times. His refugium is a 75g and contains a few types of macro, and he also runs no skimmer. The only other thing I can think that is different is he feeds flake and I feed frozed mysis.
Everything other than BTA seemed fine untill I switched to 20k lighting so I'm leaning twards that. I have been running 10k again for the past couple of days and am noticing more expansion from inhabitants as well as a little more color.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

did a bulb change from 10k to 20k, that's about when it started to swell.
... Coral polyps are out 90% of the time rather than 50%

this honestly sounds like a very age old (hobby) question and problem. We heard this for so many years (80's/early 90's) with folks limited to NO lamps and like incidences when the bulbs "aged" (aiee! lasting only 6 months at best) and then again when the bluer designer lamps came out and folks shifted from (good) daylight cheap fluorescents to (pretty) blue aquarium lamps and had less success(?).

The situation in such cases was the same... increased polyp extension (as you have seen) often mistaken as "growth" in larger polyped corals (and anemones) and none of it actually being true

The common thread here is the change to lower or less useful (more blue spectra and/or lower PAR) that forces the animals to swell and pan for more of the weakly available light. You had the good sense/savvy to recognize this was not good with your anemones and perhaps not with your corals (most) too... hence the switch back to those excellent (truly) 6500 K lamps.

Indeed, in rare cases, the lower light that forces greater poylp extension can assist increased organismal prey capture that compensates (or exceeds) the deficit from weaker carbon transfer/photosynthetic activity... and yes this can lead to net growth. But those incidences are RARE. Most corals and anemones suffer instead from the lower light in our plankton poor aquariums.

This is the crux of my lifetime rant against excessive use of actinic lights or heavy blue halides. They are pretty... but handicap growth in corals. My principal interest as a keeper and grower of corals is vigorous growth/health.

Now that you have changed back, the lack of results may well be attributable to stress. Two significant light changes in the course of weeks is very hard on some cnidarians. We see this when folks bring home a new coral and move it all around the tank (arghhhh!) for the next week. Its a surefire way to kill many corals

I think your anemone just needs time and TLC here bro. These things can take months to occur. Just like people and other pets healing fro stress or injury. We cannot snap our fingers and expect vigor to return overnight or in days. Likely a matter of months here.

Keep up with the good water quality and fresh light (bulbs new enough, wiped clean weekly, carbon use for water clarity, etc) and all will be fine I suspect in a matter of time. Lets do chat about this some more as needed, but also let me ask you for an update after one month of corrections.

kindly, Anthony