anti foaming

[rayjay]

I have about 225g of culture water raising brine shrimp and many gallons of green water culturing to use for food.
I'm interested in finding an economical way to prevent the foaming in each container the appears from aerating the containers.
Is there a safe chemical suitable at low cost?

 

[mcvicker]

This may sound completely weird, but when working on chemicals at work that foam and we can't add a chemical anti foam we have used ping pong balls. They break the surface tension and help keep foaming to a minimum, not near as effective as a chemical additive but they do work. We would put a bucket full on top of an 800 gallon tank of chemicals. May work for brine shrimp.
-chris

 

[rayjay]

Thanks for your reply. However, anything floating on top (including foam) reduces the light penetration necessary for growing/maintaining the green water necessary for the brine shrimp food supply.
With the right density of green water to start with, and with sufficient lighting over the container, a sustainable green water culture can be maintained and increased as the brine grow, using the nutrient produced by the brine shrimp culture as fertilizer for the green water.
The chemical route, I'm hoping, will allow for the lighting needs without causing any other problems.

 

[Dirtsquirt]

Light from the side instead of the top?

-Dan

 

[DonW]

Filling the containers to the top and bleeding the air with a air lock will virtually eliminate the foam. Light the containers through the sides. The air lock will also make for more sterile cultures.

Don

 

[mcvicker]

I think the problem with most antifoams is they are largely alcohol/glycol based which would cause issues with the shrimp. There are two basic types of antifoam, if I remember right, one that is alcohol based to lower surface tension and the other is sort of an oil base that floats on top (I think). I would recommend the latter as the components in it aren't spread throughout the entire solution. I don't know I am sort of grabbing at ideas from work I did several years ago. One thing you can do is use a large surface overflow to a sump with a large space above the solution to allow for accumulation of foam and time to settle. Not sure if this helps.
-chris

 

[DonW]

They are called surfactants. Most of which are toxic to sea life.

Don

 

[rayjay]

Well, I guess I'm out of luck then as the containers are not see through or with sealed tops.
I use 26g rubbermaid garbage pails for raising these brine shrimp, so light is not going to go through the sides and must work from the top.
Thanks, all, for participating in my thread.

 

[DonW]

Brine dont really need much if any light, ambient room light is more than enough. I thought you were talking about the phyto.

Don

 

[rayjay]

Don, light is needed for the phyto in their culture containers, but, it is absolutely necessary to also light the phyto in the brine culture containers.
As I mentioned previously, I have found a density of phyto to start with in the brine containers, which feeds the brine and continues growing so continued phyto additions are not necessary for about 18 days on average, when the brine really begin to grow faster and I switch to using Tahitian Blend cryo paste.
This is necessary because I lack the room to grow more phyto to be able to continually feed the brine cultures as would be required.

 

[DonW]

Don, light is needed for the phyto in their culture containers, but, it is absolutely necessary to also light the phyto in the brine culture containers.
As I mentioned previously, I have found a density of phyto to start with in the brine containers, which feeds the brine and continues growing so continued phyto additions are not necessary for about 18 days on average, when the brine really begin to grow faster and I switch to using Tahitian Blend cryo paste.
This is necessary because I lack the room to grow more phyto to be able to continually feed the brine cultures as would be required.

Yuck, thats a bacterial heaven. Explains the foaming issues. I raised phyto, brine and rotifers for a long time and never had to make that sort of soup to get them to grow.

Don

 

[rayjay]

Well, it has worked fine for a lot of years now.
Everything is bleached before re-use, and the cysts are decapped in bleach also. Same with the phyto. Bleach each use overnight or longer before reusing containers, rigid air lines etc...
I've used the adults in my ten tanks including the seahorse tank with no problems, and my customers have never reported any problems either.

 

[DonW]

Well, it has worked fine for a lot of years now.
Everything is bleached before re-use, and the cysts are decapped in bleach also. Same with the phyto. Bleach each use overnight or longer before reusing containers, rigid air lines etc...
I've used the adults in my ten tanks including the seahorse tank with no problems, and my customers have never reported any problems either.

I'm not comming down on your system but the bacteria has to be there wether you or any one else knows it or not. Breeding phyto in brine fecal matter goes against the grain of low nutrient reefkeeping.

Don

 

[mcvicker]

You can make an acrylic tray that floats on top of the tank, reduced roughly 6" per side. It will allow for light penetration. Unfortunately the sides will likely act like a protein skimmer so an internal ring could be built a few inches in from each side. The center would stay clear and allow for light penetration. You would have to remove the tray, clean and empty the perimeter probably every few days. It won't get rid of the foam, but will manage it so you can get light into your soup.
-chris

 

[rayjay]

I'm not comming down on your system but the bacteria has to be there wether you or any one else knows it or not. Breeding phyto in brine fecal matter goes against the grain of low nutrient reefkeeping.

Don

As I see it, it's similar to using a refugium on a tank system where macro's are grown to use up the nasties produced by decaying food and wastes in the tank. The phyto uses up the nutrient released by the very fast decomposing exoskeleton material and wastes of the brine but there is no food degradation as long as the greenwater is kept alive.
Sure saves on having to buy much more F/2 fertilizer from FAF.

Chris, thanks for your thoughts but it might be a little difficult to achieve as none of the containers are tanks.
I have 8 26g garbage cans, 3 inverted 5g water bottles with the bottoms cut out, 5 instant ocean pails, about a dozen gallon jars and cider jugs, and 15 two litre pop bottles and all have the foaming problem.

 

[Boomer]

and Don it can get worse if the Mo is low or the sulfate is to high. You end up with allot of dimethylsulfate.

 

[DonW]

and Don it can get worse if the Mo is low or the sulfate is to high. You end up with allot of dimethylsulfate.

Scarry thought. Terrible way to die.

Don