Anyone using Reef Crystals salt...Potential Nitrate problem

[gbr]

I recently have been noticing increased nitrate levels in my tank. In searching for a source I tested my mixed salt water which is Reef Crystals mixed to 1.026 sg. Using a Salifert test kit I had a nitrate level of 1-2.5ppm.
I tested the RO/DI water which tested zero (undetectable). I then tested a sample of the salt by adding it to a pre-tested RO/DI vial. Basically tested the RO/DI, got zero, added a pinch of salt which turned the tested water pink, indicating nitrates. (not very scientific but shows nitrates are present)

I repeated the same test with IO and the nitrates remained at zero.

Can someone with a bucket of Reef Crystals verify that their salt is nitrate free using a Salifert kit? Does your bucket of Reef Crystals have larger "chunks" of white salt and small yellow "chunks" in it? I had two buckets with this same consistancy.

 

[Krish]

Maybe you can pm Steve (Wrightme43) He uses reef crystals in his tank and as far as I know, he doesn't have any nitrate issues.

 

[gbr]

Thanks, i'll do that. Honestly I am not a chemist, but adding 10g of 1ppm Nitrate water to a 180g tank should never be noticed as de-nitrifying bacteria should be able to "eat" that up. I don't know if there are different "kinds" of nitrates but that is my thinking. I obviously have another problem with my filtration but the salt mix should have "zero" nitrates.

 

[Krish]

Thanks, i'll do that. Honestly I am not a chemist, but adding 10g of 1ppm Nitrate water to a 180g tank should never be noticed as de-nitrifying bacteria should be able to "eat" that up. I don't know if there are different "kinds" of nitrates but that is my thinking. I obviously have another problem with my filtration but the salt mix should have "zero" nitrates.

No problem...Yeah, that is strange that 10 gals of water is making that sort of difference in a 180 gal tank. Just on the volume of water alone! Hope you get it sorted out

 

[jetaero]

Have you tested your freshwater supply?

Also, if your salt has chunks or "rocks" in it, it's lost some of it's potential value, and I wouldn't use those...

-Josh-

 

[liveforphysics]

How does the salt loose "potential value" from having moisture clumps, and what is the potential value you are refereing to?

A healthy reef should be able to quickly knock down pretty much any amount of nitrate added to it rapidly. Even if your salt mix was 200ppm NO3, just doing a 10gal water change with it should just cause your tank to rapidly use the nutrient, and the water should test undectable again very shortly after.

I think this is a classic case of the way the human mind wants to blame whatever it can concretely see(salt mix), even though the problem is more than likely some micro scale biological issue(s).


Testing by adding a pinch of salt in crystal form isnt going to be a good method. Mix up a cup of your salt with a little water and check onces its all disolved.

I've never used reef crystals, and even if they contain lots of nitrates, it shouldnt be any issue for a healthy tank. After all, the foods we add contain boat loads of N and P (some more $$ ones dont have the N and P in inorganic form yet, but it only requires being used to get there).

 

[jetaero]

If using the rocks of salt...

The moisture reacts with the Calcium, creating heat, reacting with other chemicals. You will usually have a bit of precipitate. While using the rocks, the alk/Ca will be lower, and also there's no way to know what trace elements it is pulling from the mix during the reaction.

All together, it takes away from the salt, causing it to be farther away from the NSW we strive for.

-Josh-

 

[gbr]

I am really just looking for someone who has actually used the product.

live- when you start adding the 200ppm solution to your "healthy" reef, let me know how that works out for you. Let's say every other day because it will quickly be knocked down to undetectible.

The chunks don't appear to be moisture related as they occur thoughout the bucket and the yellow chunks are a soft element...sulphur like.

As stated above RO/DI is undetectible.

Basically if a bucket of salt has 1ppm of Nitrates in it that is unacceptible. Imaging the bucket, instead of saying "Nitrate Free, Phosphate Free", said only 2ppm Nitrates...who's going to buy that?

 

[gbr]

By the way, I am not pointing at this as "the" source of my problem. Agreed, a 10g 1ppm addition should be handled quite nicely by algae and bacteria. This is just an "added" source.

 

[liveforphysics]

Jetro-

Hmm... We might have to agree to dissagree.

Its possible that we are thinking of different things. Are you talking about the little clumps that form in the salt mix when you get some water into it? Or are you speaking of large 2mm+ pure NaCl crystals or something of that nature?

Could you maybe tell me specificly what chemicals are effected from a small exothermic reaction when CaCl disolves, and then re-crystalizes (possibily as a hydrate)? And how this removes Alk and Ca available ions? I also would like to know where the trace elements go when this warming occurs. Are you saying they leave the bucket somehow? Or they get bonded in undisolveable and non-bioavailable forms?


I'm really interested here, because I get all sorts of water drips and things into my salt bucket, and I feel pretty confident that its harmless.

 

[Krish]

Basically if a bucket of salt has 1ppm of Nitrates in it that is unacceptible. Imaging the bucket, instead of saying "Nitrate Free, Phosphate Free", said only 2ppm Nitrates...who's going to buy that

Makes sense man...That sucks you are using reef crystals that may be adding nitrates to your tank, regardless of the fact that it may only be 1ppm and/or that your denitrifying bacteria should be able to take care of it. You have every right to be upset...Hope you get it all sorted out. Don't forget to check with Steve (Wrightme43) because I know he uses the stuff. If you can't get him anytime soon because I've seen he hasn't been online much today, just shoot me a pm and I'll call him when I get home and ask him

 

[liveforphysics]

GBR- You are talking to a guy that used to use the very high (80-100ppm) nutrient concentrated water from my freshwater cichlid tanks for top-off water on my reefs (5-10gals at a time). I would certianly not be bothered by adding 10gal of 200ppm NO3 water to a reef 3 times bigger than my own tanks.

However, that's not the case, we are talking about something on a scale a hundred times less than that.

I agree with you from a marketing POV that it would be a tough sell to people if the bucket said 2ppm NO3. However, if every cube of brine shrimp said "will generate1-2ppm nitrate in your tank" on it, they wouldnt sell very well either, not because it is a problem of any sort, just because of the way nescient consumer minds work.

 

[liveforphysics]

And with the testing, have you tried mixing up a little cup of your clean water into salt mix completely disolved and then testing for nitrates? I only ask because I belive in crystal form it could cause that pink color to occur reguardless if it actaully contains nitrates or not. It all depends on how the perticular test you are useing functions.

 

[wrightme43]

I use reef crystals, lots and lots and lots of reef crystals. I have a bucket and a half in my truck now, and 5 more waiting to be used. I have detecteted a small amount of nitrate in the salt sometimes. It really isnt a big deal at all, in my opinion. Like Luke said it will just be bound up very quickly. Other times I get no change on the test kit. I dont know if its variation in the salt itself, or just withen the accuracy of the test kit, human error, and the like.
Now the yellow chunks thats something that would cause me to contact Instant Ocean. I have never ever seen yellow chunks in my salt. NOT once. I have had one bucket that got hard on me. I just broke it apart with my scoop, and mixed it half and half with a good bucket. No problems with Alk, Ca, Mg or anything else doing that, in my experince.
If you have algae growing in a fuge, or a clam, or zooanthelle in your tank, the 1-2 ppm nitrate will be no big deal at all, in my mind.
I am wierd, and I do strange things, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

[gbr]

Thanks wrightme. I will take a macro shot of the salt tonight and post back as to what I am seeing for you to compare. This is the 2nd bucket with the same consistancy. I am using IO again for now.

I have about about 30" of clam and about 2 gallons of chaeto in the fuge...still have 1 - 2ppm or so of nitrates in the tank?? I only feed fresh seafood that I prepared (then frozen) and brocolli. No other foods. For some reason I always have trace nitrates.

 

[LakeEd]

As with other salt brands... it may be that they have receintly changed the formula on their Reef Crystals... and that could account for this "yellow crystals" you are now seeing it in??? If I'm reading your posts correctly, these "yellow crystals" are something completely seperate from the "clumping" you mention???

 

[gbr]

There is no clumping at all. There are chunks that are white. One big crystal it would appear. Not a clump of smaller salt crystals. The yellow chunks are softer and do appear like clumps of something...some other element??? I'll get a picture.