Aragocrete want your opinions\comments

[Zen Reeferer]

How about vermiculite or perlite?

Was out in my garden shed today thinking about the agrocrete mix and how one would go about making it a bit lighter, and more porous. Then I came across my bags of vermiculite and perlite. Would either one or a combination of both of these do any good? Altho i'm sure stregnth may be affected a bit, I am curious what the reef engineers here think.
I checked these two sites http://www.perlite.com and http://www.vermiculite.com/ did not see any chemical/mineral conflicts jump out at me, with the possible exception of the perlite having traces of phospates, but would those leech out with curing? Just curious.

 

[MikeS]

Interesting links...

I'm assuming your intention would be to use either of these as aggregate in the mix, either in combination with or instead of aragonite. The perlite site seemed to have more info on the specifics of the material itself...I would defiantely guess this would be a better media than aragonite for lowering the density of the aragocrete overall. As for the chemical makeup of it...I'm not sure how it would affect water quality overall...I'll post the pakeup here and see if anything jumps out at those more well versed in chemistry than I am...

Silica 33.8
Aluminum 7.2
Potassium 3.5
Sodium 3.4
Iron 0.6
Calcium 0.6
Magnesium 0.2
Trace 0.2
Oxygen (by difference) 47.5

Net Total 97.0
Bound Water 3.0

TOTAL 100.0

 

[MarineTeng]

jlehigh, where is the best source for your dry rock/ cheapest, and what kinds are reef safe, i've thought of buying some of those tufa rocks from petco cause they seem really porous and have nice shapes

 

[Wieselsport]

I'm also looking for some base rock to get more rock work for my 75g i'm getting. Is there dry coral to use as base rock, if so where?

 

[jsmkmavity]

check out the GARF website on aragrocrete longevity issues!

 

[Reefdaddy1]

Reading this thread brings back memories I think I read 50 pages on this stuff before I took the cementing plunge..

My Summary
Possible Cons
-PITA to make (the way you want it)
-Less Porous
-Little money savings compared to Dry rock
-Slower corraline growth (with and without plastic)
-Debatable leaching of PO4 not from the cement, but the other texture adding items like crushed oyster shells, maccaroni ect ect
-Lengthy curing
)

Texture for coraline growth is a myth larger then the hancock building. If coraline requires texture to grow then why am I scarping my glass daily to keep the stuff off? Once Cured the Agrocrete take on appearance of natural live rock. Actually in some cases in my tanks better then the stuff straight from Fiji. Why? Because the coraline seeding I did was from several groups of live rock ir Bali, Tonga, Florida, and Fiji. So a variety of colors can be had. It really only requires Patience. Once it starts on the rock it goes very quickly.
As for saving money : There is absolutley no comparison to natural rock. I get a full 3 200 g tanks full of rock outs one bag of Type 3 concrete. And there is no debate about leaching, if you use oyster shells its your bad,

Pros
-Kinda fun
-Custom shapes
-Slight money savings (Maybe)

Pro should also include:
Huge money savings
No PH spikes
Added decor to your tank
Very fun to make if your artistic
And lastly
Will probably be better looking in the end then the current Fiji rock comming out.

I have used this stuff for years. I am at the point today that if I had the gumption, I could seed every new tank I make with coraline and Agrocrete. THis includes the new 200 iam bulding and the 500. But I dont have that type of gumption ,So I buy the cultured LR from florida. To cure any Agrocrete you need the flowing items:

Kiddie pool
Fresh water
Sedra 12000 Pump
High flow with water changes for about 4-6 weeks, then you good.
It is fun to let the kids make it and My club has made tons of it, Never a problem. I know the People at Garf sure like it.

 

[Wieselsport]

SO what thypes of cement can/should be used when mixing the rock??

 

[Reefdaddy1]

I use only Type 3 white cement. It can be had at any concrete speacilty store. They are several brands to choose from. But portland type 2 will work as well. Just depends on the look ya want in the end. I will buy live rock in the future but for the touch of being unique I will always have the agrocrete in my tank. The shapes you get are really quite cool. and if want,to be creative and make lace rock. Its challenging but man is it cool.

 

[brianblack]

As for the cement specialty store that would exclude the depot and lowes at least by me. I liked the stream suggestion for curing but do you think that may introduce anything harmful?? I have read different peoples opinions on a few different boards and you do run into the 2 extreme opinions but I do not want to do any duh what were you thinking there manuvers. Don't want any Darwin awards for sure.:lol: I like to think I do enough research into something or at least wear a helmet before diving into the shallow side head first. Thanks everyone for all the replies

 

[tike]

jsmkmavity could you give us a little better direction....garf is a HUGE site and a little unorganized.

thx
willie

 

[liveforphysics]

http://www.garf.org/howtodoinformation.htm#Aragocrete

This should give you some info to chew on for a while.

Now, since makeing a little or makeing a couple tons (literially) only requires making one big mess, and only needs one little nook in a stream to cure, we should get together as a group and have a saturday or sunday just focused on makeing a TON of rocks. We could have a little BBQ, some good music, and turn it into a fun social gathering.

 

[Reefdaddy1]

Luke , Thats exactly what my club used to do. They made it a big party and then dumped in a river 4 weeks later they returned and took it out but a party ensued. Lots of fun. And some very unique shapes come from Alchol and Agrocrete. LOL

http://www.garf.org/howtodoinformation.htm#Aragocrete

This should give you some info to chew on for a while.

Now, since makeing a little or makeing a couple tons (literially) only requires making one big mess, and only needs one little nook in a stream to cure, we should get together as a group and have a saturday or sunday just focused on makeing a TON of rocks. We could have a little BBQ, some good music, and turn it into a fun social gathering.