Angelscrx
Import Fish
Glad you asked the question I thought it was either BS or WS? Clarification please?
Baking Soda in the Aquarium
- Thread starter NaH2O
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kevinpo
Expert
It is 6 parts baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and 1 part washing soda (sodium carbonate). I just mix them in a 2 quart pitcher stirring briskly and serve when clear 
no baking required. I have been using this method for more than 3 years and has worked fine for me. I use about 10 lbs of sodium bicarbonate every 90 days. You can get it in 10 lb bags at Costco for a few bucks.
HTH,
Kevin
PS: Hi Boomer
no baking required. I have been using this method for more than 3 years and has worked fine for me. I use about 10 lbs of sodium bicarbonate every 90 days. You can get it in 10 lb bags at Costco for a few bucks.HTH,
Kevin
PS: Hi Boomer
Boomer
Well-known member
Hi Kev
Guys
No, you do not bake any of them if you already have both. The only part that you would bake is the baking soda and not the washing soda. The baking of the baking soda drives off some of the CO2 tied up and thus yields a powder of mostly washing soda and some baking soda still left. In short, you are just making washing soda by baking, baking soda. Baking the baking soda is a way to get some better grade washing soda. You then combine the baked baking soda with pure baking soda at a rato of either 5:1 or 6 :1. We usually to do this to achieve, as I said, a better grade of washing soda, as true washing soda is not "food grade , but a lower grade, so we could say it is safer chemically.
2NaHCO3 ---> Na2CO3 + CO2 + H2O
baking soda ---> washing soda + carbon dioxide + water
Store the mixture in an air tight contianer and use when need by adding some to a glass of RO/DI water, 1 level teaspoon at a time until you reach the desired Alk . And don't' raise it to qucikly if it is low. If your alk is to low and you dump it in all at once, to achieve the desired Alk, the pH and Alk may shoot up to quickly and the next thing you wll see is a "snow strom". Remember, these are for rasing the Alk, don't be using them to raise the pH
Guys
No, you do not bake any of them if you already have both. The only part that you would bake is the baking soda and not the washing soda. The baking of the baking soda drives off some of the CO2 tied up and thus yields a powder of mostly washing soda and some baking soda still left. In short, you are just making washing soda by baking, baking soda. Baking the baking soda is a way to get some better grade washing soda. You then combine the baked baking soda with pure baking soda at a rato of either 5:1 or 6 :1. We usually to do this to achieve, as I said, a better grade of washing soda, as true washing soda is not "food grade , but a lower grade, so we could say it is safer chemically.
2NaHCO3 ---> Na2CO3 + CO2 + H2O
baking soda ---> washing soda + carbon dioxide + water
Store the mixture in an air tight contianer and use when need by adding some to a glass of RO/DI water, 1 level teaspoon at a time until you reach the desired Alk . And don't' raise it to qucikly if it is low. If your alk is to low and you dump it in all at once, to achieve the desired Alk, the pH and Alk may shoot up to quickly and the next thing you wll see is a "snow strom". Remember, these are for rasing the Alk, don't be using them to raise the pH
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WaterDogs
Well-known member
So if I wanted to just add unbaked baking soda instead of the 6:1 mix with washing soda would my ph go too high if I added 1 teaspoon to 25-30 gallons of saltwater after first mixing it with some RO/DI water?
Thanks,
Dwaine
Thanks,
Dwaine
Boomer
Well-known member
Unbaked baking soda, which is just plain old baking soda will have the least impact on pH and Alk. Adding baked baking soda and washing soda will have more of an impact on both, as the two are mostly all washing soda. Pure washing soda by itself will have the most impact on pH and Alk. So, it is best for the mixture to be 6:1 baking soda and washing soda, no baking at all.
1 teaspoon to 25-30 gallons
I must have been sleeping, I left out the / x-gals :lol: So, what you posted should be fine, as in net gals not the size of the tank i.e., a 55 gal tank only holds 45 gals of water. A tank size is based on external dimensions, not what it can hold. Don't forget what net gals is, the actual amount of water in the tank, sump etc.. A 55 gal reef tank, with no sump etc., may only have 20 - 30 gals of actual water in it
1 teaspoon to 25-30 gallons
I must have been sleeping, I left out the / x-gals :lol: So, what you posted should be fine, as in net gals not the size of the tank i.e., a 55 gal tank only holds 45 gals of water. A tank size is based on external dimensions, not what it can hold. Don't forget what net gals is, the actual amount of water in the tank, sump etc.. A 55 gal reef tank, with no sump etc., may only have 20 - 30 gals of actual water in it
Sorry it has taken so long to get back. Flu struck my house, getting everyone. See comments below:
Well, in the strict sense of the definition of alkalinity you are correct. The total amount of buffer, and thus the total alkalinity that is titrateable, will not change quickly and it will titrate to completion due to the titration being performed with a strong acid.
Here is an intesting link that helps explain:
http://www.bartek.ca/pdfs/Applications/Appendix B/Buffers and Buffering Capacity.pdf
Here is a more in-depth mathematical treatment:
http://www.utdallas.edu/~parr/chm1315/Hris1012.ppt
The primary point I was trying to make is as follows.
The system will not have stabilized for some time period after the addition of the buffer. The carbonate/bi-carbonate ratio will change in a diffusion limited way. As this ration changes, the pH will change. As the pH changes, so does the buffering capacity. The Buffering capacity can be somewhat approximated by measuring the Total Alkalinity. This is the practice for the hobby generally.
The equation for buffering capacity can be derived and shown to have a maximum where pH=pKa, as you suggest. Thus, whenever pH changes, the buffering capacity changes. Once the equilibrium between carbonate and bi-carbonate has been reached through CO2 absorption and diffusion, pH and the BC will stabilize. Alkalinity will stay constant during this time because this titration uses a strong acid which drives the neutralization reaction to completion.
Sincerely...Collin
Boomer said:However, I'm not sure you are correct
Oh, I know I'm correct
Well, in the strict sense of the definition of alkalinity you are correct. The total amount of buffer, and thus the total alkalinity that is titrateable, will not change quickly and it will titrate to completion due to the titration being performed with a strong acid.
I am refering to the actual Buffering capacity.
Here is an intesting link that helps explain:
http://www.bartek.ca/pdfs/Applications/Appendix B/Buffers and Buffering Capacity.pdf
Here is a more in-depth mathematical treatment:
http://www.utdallas.edu/~parr/chm1315/Hris1012.ppt
The primary point I was trying to make is as follows.
The system will not have stabilized for some time period after the addition of the buffer. The carbonate/bi-carbonate ratio will change in a diffusion limited way. As this ration changes, the pH will change. As the pH changes, so does the buffering capacity. The Buffering capacity can be somewhat approximated by measuring the Total Alkalinity. This is the practice for the hobby generally.
The equation for buffering capacity can be derived and shown to have a maximum where pH=pKa, as you suggest. Thus, whenever pH changes, the buffering capacity changes. Once the equilibrium between carbonate and bi-carbonate has been reached through CO2 absorption and diffusion, pH and the BC will stabilize. Alkalinity will stay constant during this time because this titration uses a strong acid which drives the neutralization reaction to completion.
Sincerely...Collin
Boomer
Well-known member
Well Collin, it is about time I ran into someone that understands BC other than Randy, Habib and myself I have run into may chemists that don't have a clue. I consider the term Buffering Capacity often misused, as it is not interchangabe with Alk. Seawater, as I said, has very little Bc if any at all but a fair Alk. The Alk ( ANC=Acid Neutralizing Capacity) says nothing about its Acy (BNC =Base Neutralizing Capacity. But as I'm sure you know, a high Alk almost always follows with a high Acy. In most natural waters, BC is controlled by CO2, as it is CO2, that 99.9 % of the time, that causes a pH shift and it is pretty high in reef tanks also. You can have all the Alk you want and that little rascal ,we call CO2, will still drop your pH.
The equation for buffering capacity
Yes, it is usually written as and it is long.............:lol:
Bc = 2.303 {[ K1 C^T C^H / (K1 + C^H)] + [K2 C^T C^H + C^H + C^OH / (K2 + C^H)*2]}. Actual exercises are give in my old Analytical Chemistry book. It is also called the Bi = Buffer Index or BI = Buffer Intensity
Or more to your liking
http://www.cas.astate.edu/geochemistry/geochemistry/downloads/alk2.PDF
I can't read your PPT link, as I don't have Power Point but it is discussed in may of my water chemistry books. And yes, you can calulate Alk from it. I believe Millero told me once there was a conversion you could use.
As this ration changes, the pH will change
Yes that is so and if ten reefers have a end pH of 8.1, not matter what the concentration/amount, the % of CO2 to -HC3-To CO3-- will all be the same. At for example, 34.3 ppt, 30 C pH 8.1 it will be;
CO2 = 0.67 %
HCO3- = 88.6 %
CO3-- = 10.71%
Flu struck my house, getting everyone
That is not good and I might add it is good to see Mojo has a good guy handling this forum on chemistry and knows what he tis talking about
I have run into may chemists that don't have a clue. I consider the term Buffering Capacity often misused, as it is not interchangabe with Alk. Seawater, as I said, has very little Bc if any at all but a fair Alk. The Alk ( ANC=Acid Neutralizing Capacity) says nothing about its Acy (BNC =Base Neutralizing Capacity. But as I'm sure you know, a high Alk almost always follows with a high Acy. In most natural waters, BC is controlled by CO2, as it is CO2, that 99.9 % of the time, that causes a pH shift and it is pretty high in reef tanks also. You can have all the Alk you want and that little rascal ,we call CO2, will still drop your pH.The equation for buffering capacity
Yes, it is usually written as and it is long.............:lol:
Bc = 2.303 {[ K1 C^T C^H / (K1 + C^H)] + [K2 C^T C^H + C^H + C^OH / (K2 + C^H)*2]}. Actual exercises are give in my old Analytical Chemistry book. It is also called the Bi = Buffer Index or BI = Buffer Intensity
Or more to your liking
http://www.cas.astate.edu/geochemistry/geochemistry/downloads/alk2.PDF
I can't read your PPT link, as I don't have Power Point
but it is discussed in may of my water chemistry books. And yes, you can calulate Alk from it. I believe Millero told me once there was a conversion you could use.As this ration changes, the pH will change
Yes that is so and if ten reefers have a end pH of 8.1, not matter what the concentration/amount, the % of CO2 to -HC3-To CO3-- will all be the same. At for example, 34.3 ppt, 30 C pH 8.1 it will be;
CO2 = 0.67 %
HCO3- = 88.6 %
CO3-- = 10.71%
Flu struck my house, getting everyone
That is not good and I might add it is good to see Mojo has a good guy handling this forum on chemistry and knows what he tis talking about
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Boomer,
Thank you for the compliment. I am learning more about saltwater chemistry than I ever knew before (or forgot really) from the moderating. I do enjoy it. I appreciate your input and corrections. Most of my chemistry books are at work and so I get limited time to access them for purposes here, as I try not to spend too much work time online. However, I did bring a few home "recently" to study up on alk and buffers. As you pointed out somewhat indirectly, I am going off the cuff on old knowledge. A little refresher never hurts.
the ppt link I posted has the same differential equation for buffering capacity that you posted as well as its solutions and much more regarding re-formulations for multi-valent systems and mixtures etc. It is a nice PPT that gives a good overview of the physical chemistry going on.
Happy Holidays everybody. I will be somewhat scarce until after the 1st.
Collin
Thank you for the compliment. I am learning more about saltwater chemistry than I ever knew before (or forgot really) from the moderating. I do enjoy it. I appreciate your input and corrections. Most of my chemistry books are at work and so I get limited time to access them for purposes here, as I try not to spend too much work time online. However, I did bring a few home "recently" to study up on alk and buffers. As you pointed out somewhat indirectly, I am going off the cuff on old knowledge. A little refresher never hurts.
the ppt link I posted has the same differential equation for buffering capacity that you posted as well as its solutions and much more regarding re-formulations for multi-valent systems and mixtures etc. It is a nice PPT that gives a good overview of the physical chemistry going on.
Happy Holidays everybody. I will be somewhat scarce until after the 1st.
Collin
Boomer
Well-known member
Mojo
Yep and if he gets his biology online we are all in trouble!!!!!!
What is with this IF crap :lol:
Next time we have a thread on bacteria, as I just bought.
Bacterial Biogeochemistry
and
Microbial Ecology of the Oceans
Collin
I am learning more about saltwater chemistry
Let me know if you need a list of books on the subject. I have about 95 % of them in print, something like 20 on seawater chemistry, aquatic chemistry and water chemistry. Two of them Randy is still dreaming about to have :lol:
Yep and if he gets his biology online we are all in trouble!!!!!!
What is with this IF crap :lol:
Next time we have a thread on bacteria, as I just bought.
Bacterial Biogeochemistry
and
Microbial Ecology of the Oceans
Collin
I am learning more about saltwater chemistry
Let me know if you need a list of books on the subject. I have about 95 % of them in print, something like 20 on seawater chemistry, aquatic chemistry and water chemistry. Two of them Randy is still dreaming about to have :lol:
Boomer
Well-known member
Well you know all you chemist types, if you cant put it into an equation its not worth knowing
The only reason we do that is so we can explain it to guys like ............MOJOREEF........so you will not be lost in the fog :lol:
Your Christmas gift should arrive soon, Special Deliver and if it is tickin', it is not a clock from your mother
On another note I ordered you and Nikki Sorokin, for $89 (paperback), we will see if I actually get them :lol:
The only reason we do that is so we can explain it to guys like ............MOJOREEF........so you will not be lost in the fog :lol:
Your Christmas gift should arrive soon, Special Deliver and if it is tickin', it is not a clock from your mother
On another note I ordered you and Nikki Sorokin, for $89 (paperback), we will see if I actually get them :lol:
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bradreef
always kidding
i WANT TO BUMP THIS AND SEE WHAT PEOPLES RESULTS HAVE BEEN IN THE LAST TWO MONTHS. Waterdogs how is this working. Just started myself.
WaterDogs
Well-known member
I quit using the homemade mix because of its short term effect on ALK, add it today and the next day my ALK is low again. I am currently using TM Bio-Calcium and AquaCraft's buffer for my 75g and things are back to normal.bradreef said:
bradreef
always kidding
thats one of the things I was worried about. other than that how is your tank doing.
nyfireman3097
Well-known member
i did not read the whole post yet but here is a calculater that works wonders
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html
Nick
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html
Nick
wrightme43
Well-known member
Hey Tom Mine says super on it too. I think its just some kind of advertising gimick. LOL It hasnt caused me any problems. Steve
nyfireman3097
Well-known member
how do u guys like the calculator
Nick
Nick
