Banggi Cardinal fish/ mouth wound

[MrSculpin]

My Cardinal fish has what seems to be a wound on its right side of its mouth.
Im not sure what is wrong or how best to treat it.
I'll try to post what info is needed.

I've had this fish for a little over three months in my 30 gallon display tank.
The tank has been set up for almost five months now. Size wise the fish is about 1" mouth to base of tail.

The other side of the fish looks fine and normal as does the rest of the fish.
Picture isnt the best but it might help.

A few days ago I noticed the mouth being a little red
but it was hard to tell. The fish was was eating well and acting normal. Today the mouth looks worse and "frayed"

It hangs out in the back corner of the tank most of the time, comes out to eat and will come out to the front of the tank most evenings for awhile. Its behavior has not changed, just the mouth "wound".

I feed it the mysis shrimp, twice a day. I cut the frozen cubes in about six pieces and feed one piece twice a day.

It wont eat anything else for me yet. I have a small yellow watchman gobie, his shrimp and an urchin. the urchin is new, got it right before christmas to help a hair algae problem.
The rest of the tank mates seem happy and fine. I have xenia, green star poylps and some Zoanthid.

30 Gallons
Temp is 78
PH is 8.2
1.024
0 Nitrite
0 Nitrate
0 free ammonia
total ammonia reads between 0 and 0.1
0.0 phosphates
Alk is about 5


The tank has a shallow sand bed, about 38lbs of live rock.
Remora skimmer. PC compact light.
No sump or refugium. I use tap water.

Let me know what I've missed.

 

[leebca]

That area could be a sore from an injury, poisoning, or disease. Whatever the source, it can lead to infection and/or disease.

The fish should be able to heal on its own, except for the fact that the food it's getting is not providing enough nutrition AND, the source of the problem has not been resolved. So even if you treat the condition or even if the fish heals on its own, the problem/cause still remains.

I would do the following:
Read up on how to properly feed this fish and spend a strong effort to get it eating right. These might help:
My New Fish Won't Eat -- Tips
Getting Fish to Eat the RIGHT Foods

The longer the wait to improve its diet the harder it will be to train the fish to eat other foods.

Regarding poison -- ranges from water quality to chemicals in the system that don't belong there. I would do the following:

Make up new saltwater using RO/DI or distilled water. Make a 60% water change. Since this will be a large water change, follow the guidelines outlined here: How to Make a Successful Water Change

One week later, make another 60% water change.

Look for other water quality issues by reviewing this post:
What is Water Quality

I would suggest you reconsider and no longer use tap water. Please read these:
Source Water
and
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/chem.htm

Review how/where/why organics may be building up in the water. If you use a skimmer, make sure it is being kept clean and properly maintained. If you use or also use any chemical absorbents, like activated carbon, make sure you change it now and use fresh and keep it maintained. Clean all mechanical filters. If per chance you aren't using a mechanical filter and carbon/chemical absorbents, start.

If you follow the above recommendations and make improvements to diet, water quality, and equipment, leave the fish where it is now and watch it closely. Be prepared to move it to a hospital tank for a treatment with an antibiotic.

 

[MrSculpin]

Thanks Lee for the info,
I'll get a water change done today.
I did set up a hosptial tank last night in case, but the fish is still in the display tank though I had put it in a floating fish breeder, where the water flows through to try and take a picture and keep a close eye on it. Its still in that and seems to be doing okay, mouth looks the same, but it doesnt seem stressed.


I agree on the food, and have been thinking about trying to make my own, but mixing the shrimp it likes with some things from the store, like clam, shrimp ect minced up.
Im not sure on that as far as what to add ect, and garlic? vitamins?

Thanks for the links, I will read more on them.

I do use a skimmer, I clean the cup well every few days, rinse it the other days. I have only cleaned the skimmer itself once like the instructions say, but I've only had it and the tank for five months.

I do use a hang on mechanical filter with carbon in it. I use filter pads when I do a water change to help clear the water up. I take them out afterwards since I was told it can build up nitrates.

If I do move it to the hospital tank, what might you suggest for an antibiotic? The hospital tank is a five gallon tank I have put in 4 gallons of salt water to it, heater and powerhead. The powerhead is a bit much for it, but I thought I would put in an airstone in place of that if the fish goes in, maybe a sponge filter. The temp is 76 in it.
The main tank stays close to 78 degress.

 

[MrSculpin]

Fish is better

Lee,
The fish is doing much better, thanks again for the quick response and suggestions.
I did move it to a hospital tank and treated it with antibitics and have been working on the items you suggested.

On feeding it better, while its been in the hospital tank, I have feed it the shrimp it likes thinking I didnt want to make it worse by having it stop eating.

I had planned to move it back to the display in a few days
but I am wondering if doing a partial water change and keeping it in for a bit to work on the feeding might be a better idea? I thought to try the garlic suggested then try and get it to eat other things.
Or do you think I should get it back to the main tank and work on feeding there?

 

[leebca]

I strongly urge that the fish be kept in quarantine until it has been trained to eat other foods.

 

[MrSculpin]

Woo hoo!

Lee,
Well a partial sucess! I was able to get the Cardinal to eat some clam/shrimp mix!

I bought some clams and larger raw shrimp from the store. I minced the shrimp once I peeled it. The clams I had to steam a bit to get open. Maybe there is a better way on that to get them open? So they were cooked a bit.
I minced them too and added a tiny bit of garlic juice.
The fish seemed to notice right away and lunge for the bits. It ate several bites. It seems to think its not food if its not swirling by it.

Should I try to add more things in the mix next time? I saw several types of fish in the store, and or some type of vitmins? what would you suggest?

 

[leebca]

It's great to use fresh (living) clams and fresh shrimp, BUT after mincing, you want to freeze them. This handles any hitchhiking organisms.

The clams should not be heated. If you can't/don't want to open them by hand (a chore, I know), here's what you can do. Clean off the outside thoroughly with tap water and rinse in distilled water. Then freeze the clam solid for at least 48 hours. Then thaw the clam in the sink. They will open very slightly as they thaw. The opening is wide enough for you to easily get a knife into to finish opening them wide.

Keep the mixing going. Add different things to it -- the things they should be eating. Try to get some raw scallop meat, too. Very good for fish. It is 'sweet' to them. Whatever seafoods you feed, you want to be sure it was or is frozen solid for 48 hours and then thawed before feeding.

I do not recommend you feed any sea fish to your fishes. You want to get serious with this post for other ideas and the answers regarding vitamin and fat supplements: Fish Health Through Proper Nutrition.

Good luck!

 

[MrSculpin]

Lee,
Thanks for the tips on the clams. Sounds pretty easy.

I did freeze my mix once I made it so I did that right!
I'll check out the post for the vitamin info.
Thanks for all the help.

Do you think its safe to put the fish back in the display yet? I have had three days of it eating my mix, so it likes that plus the mysis shrimp.

I did see raw scallops, so I'll get that next time along with the clams and shrimp. It cost me a dollar for the little I got and with only the cardinal and my goby and shrimp it will go a long ways.

 

[leebca]

I would recommend keeping them there a few weeks. You want them all totally into the habit of eating what you provide AND a wide variety. You have yet to try vitamin and fat supplements on them. You have yet to try commercially prepared (frozen) foods.

Use no food you've had for over 3 months (assuming it was kept frozen).

More tips are in that post.

 

[MrSculpin]

Okay

Sounds good! I'll work on that info!