Bare bottom

[CarlaW]

OK, I know this is an old subject, dragged thru the mud, many, many times. Here is the topic:
How many folks out there have had a BB system running for MORE than 1 year, the SAME system ??
What is your maintenance on it?
Do you run filter socks 24/7 or just say 1 time a week, and how often do you clean them?
Did you cook your rock before it entered the system?

Reasons why I am asking this;
I have the chance to totally redo my 300, plumbing, flow etc.
After having done enuf READING!!!!!!!!! I am ready to hear your tales and then do some more READING.

Please give an old boy a shot!!!!!

 

[Scooterman]

Well Charlie, as you know we've read up on this a good bit, I think you can see what problems people were having after moving rock for a sb to bb. The husbandry isn't the same but I had my old tank over a year & had a few issues but with my new tank running with just LR & hermits the past two or three months it isn't the same. I'm hoping that from the switch way back from DSB to what I have now is way better in regards to keeping a bb tank. So far it is awesome, a few key designs made the difference IMO but yea we need more time to prove it right! QT everything wet, at this point I will QT new rocks at least two months maybe longer so I don't inherit new unwanted species.

 

[CarlaW]

OK, just throwing this out for giggles, even if you do QT your rock, I have seen new stuff appear on rocks that I have had for 7-8 years, so do you think that is really a necessity? I realize that the QT might just be for stuff like aiptasia and few other well known nuisance hitchikers.

 

[Scooterman]

New stuff after 7 -8 years most probably are introduced by some other means, keeping rocks yo already have is one thing, I was concerning new rocks!

 

[CarlaW]

New stuff after 7 -8 years most probably are introduced by some other means, keeping rocks yo already have is one thing, I was concerning new rocks!

I knew that about new rocks, but even after a curing stage, I would be willing to bet that there is alot that gets thru. I am not saying that QT is BS
Just testing the waters so to speak.

 

[DonW]

Charlie,
If you are going to go for it you may as well go all out. I'd cook the rock, literally in a turkey fryer with water of course.
As far as maintenance. I do just water changes. I go through phases with filter socks. Sometimes I get tired of the detritus in my sump so I clean it up and start using a sock. Other times I get tired of swapping socks so I just let it go. Either way it really doesnt matter.
Flow flow and more flow. I have 4 spots in my tank that collect detitus, so I suck this out once every few months.

Hope this helps
Don

 

[CarlaW]

Thanx Don!!!!!
Do you have full access to your sump as far as being able to see and recognize where the crap settles out?
I have a plan for one of my closed loops, as far as trying to keep the bottom clean.
Did you use any type of racking to keep your rock off of the bottom?

 

[reedman]

Hey Charlie, here's my 2 cents worth.

I ran DSB first for several years, then switched to BB for about 2.5 years, now I have a shallow sand bed.

Here's my take on BB and why a lot of people think it is superior:
BB allows you to see detritus as it builds in the tank. It is right there sitting on the bottom. No sand to blend with, nothing. You can direct your flow to bloe it all into one place and suck it out on a regular schedule. This is what I did and it worked very well. You can easily adjust flow without spraying sand everywhere. Outside of that, I see no other "tangible" benefit. It just makes it easier to export the detritus.

DSB
To me a DSB is a means to an end. It is a nutrient sink and it works very well to do that. I dropped nitrates from well over 100 ppm to nothing in a short period of time with a DSB. I personally don't like the space they take up, the longer term mainenance issues, or the visual detraction from the tank of having several inches in clear view (there are ways around this, but that is not the topic here).

SSB
I like the look of sand. I like some of the animals that need sand to be happy and healthy (conchs, sea cukes, wrasses, some gobies, etc.). I also think the tank is brighter due to the reflection of light off the sand. Finally, after diving in the Caribbean, my vision of a coral reef includes sand....no way around that for me. As a result, I switched to a compromise. I use a shallow sand bed to achieve the look I want, provide the sand the animals need, and still allow the flow patterns to collect detritus that I can remove.

Bottom line on this one, in my view, is that you just need to pick what maintenance you are willing to deal with. I think people try to make this a god vs. bad too much when it is really a maintenance issue. You have to get the detritus out before is breaks down...doesn't matter how, it just has to be removed. For this I use an inverted 2 liter bottle with the bottom cut of to "vacuum" the sand on water changes. This keeps it clean, and gets detritus out. So far I am quite happy with the results.

Incidentally, on the pest topic. My tank was doing great for 5-6 years when out of nowhere something decided that SPS taste great and ate its way through my entire tank. I suspect it was the little carnivorous starfish as I can see plenty of them in my tank now (hopefully starving and dieing a painful death). I have always had these, but never had problems. It's hard to say what killed the tank, but this is the risk when we bring in items from the wild where there are checks and balances and put them in our systems that lack the balances. QT is good, but things will come through....fact of life.

Good luck my friend...and keep us posted with pics

 

[CarlaW]

Reed, when you were a BB kind of guy, What was the flow like in your tank compared to your SSB.
You are saying that you vacuum your SSB, something akin to what us folks do with our FW tanks and the gravel on the bottom?

 

[Meche]

You are saying that you vacuum your SSB, something akin to what us folks do with our FW tanks and the gravel on the bottom

I do with my ssb.

 

[DonW]

Thanx Don!!!!!
Do you have full access to your sump as far as being able to see and recognize where the crap settles out?
I have a plan for one of my closed loops, as far as trying to keep the bottom clean.
Did you use any type of racking to keep your rock off of the bottom?

Ya my sump is just a 55g aga aquarium no frills, no baffles. No pegs lifting the rocks but I really dont have much rock so its is easy to see under it.

Don

 

[CarlaW]

No pegs lifting the rocks but I really dont have much rock so its is easy to see under it.

Don

Just a thought here, are you of the opinion that our long lasting theory of 1-1.5 lbs of rock per gallon is total BS. I have noticed that lately, people are going with less rock, lower profile aquascape, and especially BB folks, a ton of flow that when all combined together creates some really nice random flow.

 

[reedman]

Reed, when you were a BB kind of guy, What was the flow like in your tank compared to your SSB.
You are saying that you vacuum your SSB, something akin to what us folks do with our FW tanks and the gravel on the bottom?

When I was a BB guy I was running a lot of flow down the back wall of the tank (straight down) and that would push all the detritus to the front where the rest of the flow would drive it to one corner. I was really convenient for maintenance, but I missed the sand.

On the vacuuming...Yup...exactly like the FW (but I found that I needed a larger vessel so I wouldn't suck all the fine grain sand out)

On the rock I definitely think the amount of rock needed has drastically changed over time. A couple reasons for this:

• skimmer efficiency has improved a lot so the amount of biological filtration necessary is less
• other means of filtration have shown up over time (RO filtration)
• better foods (less flakes more fresh fish)
• better stocking habits (less fish and better understanding of there needs)

-Reed

 

[Lew90]

Hi Charlie,

Here's my two cents as well.

I'm kinda of echoing what DonW has to say only sounds like he doing a better job.

I don't know all of the issues from going to a DSB to a BB because the BB 90 gal tank that I have was purchased from a previous owner. He had it set up for 8 years in a BB form when I purchased it. This summer will be 3 years that I've had it set up in a BB form.

Cleaning: Not as often as I should. I got busy this summer with projects around the house and was able to keep up on the water changes. Water changes every few months (RO/DI), no socks, Bio Ball (old school thinking). I say that but I do take half of the bio ball out once a year and clean them and put them back in. Seems to be working fine and water paremeters have be ok. Clean the detritus out of the sump once a year (maybe a half of a cup).

Over the last two weekends I rearrange my rock since I wanted more caves and wanted to clean the detritus that I couldn't normally get when I did water changes. I completed it and also placed two small power head at each back corner of the tank to blow the detritus out from under the rocks. These power heads are placed on timers running 15 minutes every hour (for now). I may cut them back once I see how things goes.

Hope this help!

Regards,
Lew90

 

[CarlaW]

I also think that the rock that we have access to now is alot more porous and lighter. Look at some of the Pukani and Kaelini and whatever else Walt decides to call his rock!! When you can get an 80lb. chunk of rock that covers a 2x2' area. or larger, I think that is great.

I agree with you on the tech aspects of the hobby also, if you go back even 3 years, it has changed so much, some good, some bad.

 

[CarlaW]

Hi Charlie,

Here's my two cents as well.

I'm kinda of echoing what DonW has to say only sounds like he doing a better job.

I don't know all of the issues from going to a DSB to a BB because the BB 90 gal tank that I have was purchased from a previous owner. He had it set up for 8 years in a BB form when I purchased it. This summer will be 3 years that I've had it set up in a BB form.

Cleaning: Not as often as I should. I got busy this summer with projects around the house and was able to keep up on the water changes. Water changes every few months (RO/DI), no socks, Bio Ball (old school thinking). I say that but I do take half of the bio ball out once a year and clean them and put them back in. Seems to be working fine and water paremeters have be ok. Clean the detritus out of the sump once a year (maybe a half of a cup).

Over the last two weekends I rearrange my rock since I wanted more caves and wanted to clean the detritus that I couldn't normally get when I did water changes. I completed it and also placed two small power head at each back corner of the tank to blow the detritus out from under the rocks. These power heads are placed on timers running 15 minutes every hour (for now). I may cut them back once I see how things goes.

Hope this help!

Regards,
Lew90

Wow, 11 years, now that is the type of thing I was looking at when I started this. You must have gotten some good advice from the previous owner as well.
Is your rock on the bottom of the tank with no racks? Do you have any pics.

In fact, I would appreciate any pics you folks could throw in as well.

Don and Reed, how long have or were you BB?

 

[reedman]

I also find that if you go in and powerhead your rock every month or two you will have much less "shedding" than if you just let it go. You will also get better filtration from the rock. This has been my experience (it's pretty scary how much crap comes out of the rock).

 

[CarlaW]

OK, let's change up here for a sec.
Can we talk about what types of pumps you were using for the flow that was directed behind your rock? I have to remember that some of your tanks are not my 300, so I am going to have to look for something a might larger.
I was thinking of this:
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=DP7565
on a closed loop.
The thought was to take the returns (4- 3/4") down the back and use loc-line to split up after that. Has anybody ever used eductors to increase their flow?

 

[Lew90]

Charlie,

No rack or eggshell only rock on glass. The gentleman that sold me the tank did give me good advance, what worked for him and I followed through with it.

I'm going to try and post some pictues of before and after today but I'm also added a chiller and gravity feed refugium to my wifes seahorse tank and still have time for the superbowl. Just the plumbing is left but it will take awhile.

I posted a thread yesterday on Fiberglass in your tanks
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22791

It seems to have work ok but I think I could have done better.

I should also add info on the sump and over info. The tank has a hang on overflow with a ~10 gal sump with one baffle between bio balls and pumps, with and external protien skimmer. All which is Tricon brand equipment.

I agree with reedman in that I do the same thing with a power head blowing on the rocks when I do a water change. It helps the rocks and keep a cleaning tank.

It should also be noted that not all of my tanks are BB. I have two tanks that are BB and two that are LSB. I like both methods.

Regards,
Lew90

 

[reedman]

So for me Charlie I had an AM3K on a 75 gallon tank.

I know someone that was running eductors on a high pressure pump (Pan world pumps work well for this) and it worked great. If I was doing a big project like this I would seriously look into eductors (as long as you can get enough space between them and the corals so you don't strip tissue).

Here's what I think I would do....get a large volume, low amp pump for the flow down the back (maybe 750-1000 gph per 2 foot of back wall), then decide what type of flow you want in the rest of the tank. You could do an oceansmotions to distribute flow throughout the tank and go with a smaller, high pressure pump with eductors. You could go with another high volume, low amp pump and seaswirls. You could go with seios or something similar. Flow is so personalized.