better filtration

[carsonc]

Hi guys I am new to your site (came along with the 02manyfish group). I was reading some of your older posts and run into a thread started by Scooterman about algae. My tank is a 75 gal reef - fish - macro algae -combination. It did not start out that way but it took me a long time to get a skimmer to work (a long story).
I like the look of macro algae in a tank even if it is not a true copy of a reef (have never actually seen a reef). Before the tank was switched to marine it was a fresh water planted tank.(I like plants)
Enough babel.
We don't use a lot of reg filtration (thru filter pads) because it could cause nitrates if not changed often. And the skimmers we use are sometimes temperamental things (in the hands of some) (me)
If you had a filter that used a thin material (2 - 5 micron filtration) that was changed out every 6 hours automatically so that there was no time for the nitrates to form. It would also remove a lot of particulate stuff that the skimmers might miss. Do you think something like this would be worth doing, I know how to do it just don't know if it would be worthwhile
Also was wondering about using an additional filter on the tank when blowing out the live rock with the baster. We used to use a diatomaceous filter on the fresh water tanks but I guess adding diatoms would be a bad idea here. Is there some kind of super filter that would remove more of the stuff blown out than a sock on the overflow tube. I have a lot of circulation in the tank but still I can see some of the stuff from the rocks falling to the sand bed and not being removed.

 

[Katchupoy]

Welcome, welcome..... Carsonc.... I dont know if I can answer your questions here but will try... I know that a lot of people here are using filter socks.... around 100 microns... I think lower than that is too much if used regularly... There is also a possibility of removing all the nutrients in the water column that will starve your corals of important food.

They said that even 100 micron sock used 24/7 is too much.... to be honest... I only used it when i siphoned my tank (barebottom) with detritus... and changing it every week I think is good... (IMO only and not scientific...) I believe that someone will chime in about it here.

 

[gobie]

Humm Another Good Question I Too Have A 75 With Little To No Mech Filter I Have Been Counting On My Detritus Eaters To Do Their Part. I Know This Is Like A Balancing Act. But That Is What Our Lil Microcosims Are Balencing Acts. Only Recently Have I Started To Employ Mech Filtration I'm Using The Net Part Only From A Cheap Brine Shrimp Net To Capture Snail Poop Etc. It Seems To Be Working Too. I Was Going To Try A Filter Sock But My Sump Isnt Drilled For It And I Really Dont Feel That Much Up To Modofiying It Either. So I Think Im Giving This A Try For Now.

 

[mojoreef]

Hey Carson welcome to Reef frontiers.

You pose a good question. Sock fitration can be a viable method of filtration, most folks dont go down that road as its a lot of maintence to change them out all the time. I use filter socks but only on a part time basis when syphoning the tank or when the detritus in the tank become a little to much. For that i use the 5 micron felt socks, I mount them on a disk in the sump where the drain lines come in.
In your case if you wish to do the change outs I dont see a problem. I would not run the constant though. I would do it like this. Run a 5 micron sock for a full day then remove it. Only add it back in when you see a particulate build up in the water column, then repeat the procedure. now all of this is based of the assumtion that you have good enough circulation in the tank to keep the detritus suspended. I thinlk you will find that you will go for at least a week inbetween socks. Remember when the dettitus is in the water column it is available to corals and such, so dont be to discouraged by seeing it thier, its a good thing. Its when it get to be to much and begins to lower your light levels through turbidity or land out.


hope it helps


Mike

 

[carsonc]

Hello to all and thanks.

What I am thinking about is a particulate filter that would be mounted in the sump with a roll of filter material that would be above the water surface and then the filter material would be threaded down under the water to come back up in the device where you would have control of the water flow from the overflow. There would be a perforated plate or some other form of support for the filter material. The flow of water thru the filter would be adjustable and if it was removing too much from the water you could lower the flow, the rest just going thru the sump unfiltered.
The filter material would move thru the water flow in small increments so that any thing it removed from the water is taken out of the water within a short period of time The dirty filter material would wind onto a spool like device above the water trapping any thing it removed between the layers of filter material.
If something like this worked do you think it could replace the need for a skimmer. I would think that you would need to keep carbon in the system to remove stuff that is already disolved
Since it is a completely mechanical device there would be no problems with adjustments, no problems with putting you hands in the tank or that sort of thing. There would be no pump needed as the pressure head from the overflow would be more than enough. The small stepper motor that drives the filter material would be above the water level so there would be no heat transfer.
It would be a small unit and would only filter a small portion of the water going thru the sump, could probably be run 24/7 and just replace the roll of filter material when it is used up. One less thing to do daily
What do you think ?
Carson

 

[mojoreef]

Hmmm well thats a little deeper then running a filter sock, LOL.
It would have to be a slow moving motor and then no hitch point to where the detritus could be released again. It seems a bit complex for what it is really goin to do for ya Carson.

Mike

 

[carsonc]

It sounds a lot more complex than it really is. It is just a length of filter material that gets water run thru it and then the filter material moves a little upward, out of the water.
What I was trying to do is make something that would replace a skimmer. When someone says whats good about a skimmer they always say that it removes the bad stuff from the tank water, it gets it out of the water flow . I think I can do the same thing with this idea.
The reason I wanted to replace the skimmer is that they seem to have to be set differently for each tank, are dependant on the sump level and some are just very hard to use. The adjustment of the skimmer is closer to a "black art" than any thing else.
The motor would be a stepper motor, they turn in small steps and then stop, easy to use and low voltage.
What I don't know is if removing the particulates from the tank water would clean the water as well as a skimmer does (on the rare occasion they are working well)

 

[wrightme43]

I think there may be a place for your filter. It seems like it might be useful for removing particles from the water. I dont think it could be a replacement for a skimmer.
It is my understanding that a skimmer removes much more than what a filter pad can, resonable proof for this statement is that with two filter socks changed out every 3 days on my tank my skimmer still makes a very large amount of black slimy nasty junk. I run my filter socks constantly. I do however feed my target feed my corals, and as far as I can tell none are any worse for it. I do large 30% water changes quite often (two weeks) Skimmers remove stuff that will go right through a filter pad. I have found them not to hard to adjust and a very valuble piece of equiptment.
This is in no way meant to keep you from building your machine. If it works and is a cost effective and safe way to fiter reef tanks people will beat your door down to buy them. It might be (IMHO) better to make one in addition to a skimmer instead of trying to replace it. Remember these are only my opinions and I share them because you asked for them. LOL
HTH Steve