Bio Pellets

[mojoreef]

I am trying to get a clearer picture on the use of this line of products. I already have alot of info on the reaction to them in a variety of reef tanks when they first came out, but alot of that info was on a reduced time frame. So if their are nay folks out their that are either just starting or have been using this product you could you put out some info for me?? Stuff like how long you have been using them, maybe some nutrient measures prior, during and after?? any side effects, any noticable effects while introducing them??

thanks in advance


Mojo

 

[Krish]

We need to get Skimmy in here. I think it was him that has been using it for about a year maybe. I'll send him a pm with the link to see what feedback he can give to get things going.

 

[Scooterman]

I've seen many folks here using them, so we should get a ton of feedback. I thought this was brought up with Boomer at one time also?

 

[TheKraken]

I have pellets (Eco bak?). Apparently this was "non tumbling" so I added 50ml to a media bag. It lives in the outflow compartment of my skimmer. After 1 year the beads are still factory fresh in size and color. No smell so anaerobic is not an issue. Dr Tim talked at Seamax and showed pictures of biomass as atomic and anaerobic. I will be investing in a reactor at some point and see what happens. Apparenlty beads can slime and compact in a fluidized reactor which can the become anaerobic. No other real downside f you keep things from clogging IMHO.

 

[Tecnomage]

I'm using them, have been for 2 months or so, don't forget I'm a fairly new reefer so I can't say much about long term or vs other forms of carbon dosing but I'll share what I've got.

I'll go with negative first.
1. Require more flow than most other media in reactors so you'll need a larger pump. (not a big deal but don't expect the same pump you used for GFO to work for pellets)
2. Related to 1, you'll probably need to mod your reactor to get them working, or better yet a brand new reactor. The pellets tend to clump and settle if the flow isn't reasonably even. I have a nextreef MR1 and I modded it a bit to get it working, wasn't really satisfied with the result ended up getting a mod kit from the company that replaced the 1/2" tubing and connectors with 5/8" which worked a lot better with the same maxijet 1200.
3. You have to start slow, I started with 1/4 the recommended dose, took it up to 1/2 now and will increase it to 3/4 or full recommended dosage soon.

Positives:
I've been changing a bunch of stuff in my tank but when I took the GFO offline and put on the biopellets I saw a real improvement in my nitrates. My algae issues are slowly fading. It's also a lot easier to make sure it's working properly just make sure they're not clumping and add more every 4-6 months when the pellets are used up.

 

[mojoreef]

Kraken thanks for the reply. Yea the flow through it pac or reactor so make a real good enviroment for aerobic bacteria population, from their they seem to be able to create a mass of biofilm and then that is where the anearobic bacteria would populate. That biofilm is probibly the sliming and clumping you are seeing. Any measures on Nitrate or P prior and after putting them in??

Tecnomage excellent info and thanks. Anyway I could talk you into taking some Nitrate and Phosphate tests prior and after??


Mojo

 

[Tecnomage]

Tecnomage excellent info and thanks. Anyway I could talk you into taking some Nitrate and Phosphate tests prior and after??

Sure thing. I've got the red sea nitrate test (not the pro version) I'll have to dig up what brand my phosphate test is. We can setup a scenario in a few weeks or so when everything gets stable (I'm adding a new skimmer and doing a bunch of flow work this week and want to let that settle out). I won't add any more biopellets until we come up with a test that you'd like.

When I first set them up I had nitrate around 40-50 according to Rob at Red C. I bought the same kit he used, with weekly 10% water changes and then the biopellets I was running around 7-10. Granted the water changes helped out, but I saw algae vanishing with the pellets where I didn't before while I was running the GFO.

-Jim

 

[Tecnomage]

Mojo,

I don't know if you've seen this thread on 3reef.

Carbon dosing - method testing started - Page 19 - 3reef Forums

 

[mojoreef]

Yea I followed that thread Techno, but thanks for putting it up I am sure other would enjoy it. Here is what I am kind of looking to do. If you are dosing Carbon which is what Vodka does and what these various type of pellets do you are giving bacteria a form of respiration , from their they are able to reduce various elements. SO basically creating a hyper bacteria population that will reduce ammonia/nitrites and nitrates. I cant find anything biological that would disprove that this is happening, but what I am concerned with is that yes we are binding nutrients but where do they go from their? Where is the actual export system? Is their a way we can actually use this process for exportation?

I have also noted in the original studies that their was a bit of a hit across the board in PH, which would raise the concern of co2 production?? Would make sence in terms of the carbon cycle?

Anyway so kind of looking check more numbers to confirm nutrient reduction, then attempt some tweeks to impliment actual exportation, which I think would really justify the use of this product and lesson my fear that with out the exportation issue that nutrients are just being sunk into various substraights by bacterial graveyards locked up in biofilms.


Mojo

 

[Tecnomage]

That makes a lot of sense Mojo. From what I've seen people tend to point their bio-pellet reactor output to the intake of the skimmer and use that to export the the bacteria population. I'll send you a PM when I get the tank stable and we can test whatever you like.

 

[mojoreef]

Yea pointing the reactor output would take care of some of the DOCs and perhaps help with the increased co2 but it still I would love to see a very good dig into that biofilm/mulm/slime that forms on the pellets them selves.

Mojo

 

[reedman]

Isn't this similar to just putting bioballs into a container, pushing water through it allowing bacteria to colonize (maybe feeding with carbon source) and putting the output into a filter sock or the input of your skimmer. This just seems like a different media to allow the colonization of bacteria. Is the media and adsorbent? Otherwise this is he same premise as the zeolytes and other media used for bacterial colonization. For all that you can dose vodka directly into a filter sock and just remove it after a day or two with the nasty crap in it (actual export).

 

[mojoreef]

No Reed it operates on a slightly different premise. The carbon is actually in and on the pellets, so a solid source instead of a liquid source. Zeolites dont provide carbon (unless someting has changed in their product) but provide an enviroment. So the pellets provide both the carbon source and the surface. Their advertising states to allow the mulm/bacteria/biofilm to go into the tank and that it feeds other life forms.

I have never really been a big fan of Vodka dosing as it just sets things into the tank and it is impossble to do any real export so you are basically just sinking it. This solid form however does have the oppurtunity to actualy remove it (nutrients) if you set it up correctly. The other thing I am looking into is the long term use of polymers in the reef tank and thus in the critters that live in it.


Mojo

 

[mojoreef]

Does anyone that is running bio-pellets also run an orp or DO monitor??

Mojo

 

[reefledlights]

We used to use them then we stopped.

They are a great way of carbon dosing if you need to.

Bacteria use the nutrients from the tank and the balls to grow and multiply.

They being hydrophobic are easily skimmed out or used by established reef organisms. Nutrient export through the skimmer is the primary goal...

The theory is sound but from a user stand point we have not seen an improvement that justifies the cost.

At MACNA we had the pleasure of discussing this over dinner and we were surprised on how complicated and specific carbon dosing can be.

IMHO....If you carbon dose make sure you have a big ass skimmer...Or are very sure where these extra nutrients are going....

Bill

 

[bradr]

I notice with dosing vinegar my felt filter sump return bags clog much faster. Methinks it's bacteria.