Blue tang with spots

[NWDiver]

Hi Lee,
I have a small ~3 1/2" blue tang that has white spots on the right pec fin.
I will try to get a good photo this evening, but it is a tough shot to get
The fish was alone in QT for 5 weeks (I now see that it should have been 6) with no problems visable during that time. The QT is bare bottom with new pvc and a new plastic plant for comfort. I used DT water and a sponge filter that had been in my sump for 3 weeks. I changed 2.5 to 3 gals every other day from my display to the 30gal QT. The QT was a new tank.
The tang showed these symptoms 3 weeks after addition to the DT.
The DT has three other fish showing no symptoms and having passed through the same QT protocol previously, two oc clowns and an orange spot goby.
The tang is eating well (form 1 and 2, mysis, with greens available) and NOT flashing or showing any obvious signs of distress.
DT is a 120 with 45 gal sump\fuge
Water is stable and has the following parms tested with Apex and Elos
pH 8.21 to 8.3 morning to night
Temp 77 to 78
Alk 7.5 Dkh
Ca 450
Mg 1200
Nitrate not detectable
Ammonia not detectable
how do I best diagnose the issue?
I'm guessing MI, but after 5 weeks in QT it seems possible but unlikely that I would have missed it in any of the fish.
I did read your MI sticky and understand that anything less than 8 weeks in QT does not rule out MI.
Where to from here?
Thanks,

-Todd

 

[YamahaF934]

Does flashing mean distress. . . I have a flasher wrasse that racing across the front of the tank occasionally? Is he stressed.

 

[NWDiver]

The flashing I'm refering to is when the fish tries to scratch itself against objects. They quickly "twist" in the water making their bodies "flash".

 

[reef18ster]

Sounds like marine ich to me too.

 

[mal1099]

well in my experience when i got my blue tang it fought ich for roughly 3 months. i fed it well use garlic to supplement in the food. He is now a 1 year inhabitant in my aquarium and hasnt had ich in almost 9 months. None of my other fish never got it btw.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Both of you should read up on the stickies at the top of this forum about Ich.

 

[NWDiver]

I hope Lee can chime in soon.
Any thoughts Fishy? I can't catch a pic of the fin in a way that shows the spots.
It would be a rather unusual timeline for ich with the QT, but by what I've read, it is possible.
I don't think I could have introduced it with coral water as I always dip and rinse with MY water. In the egg stage perhaps.
I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to proceed, I guess I can start the hypo treatment if things get worse or if no other diag. is available. I hate to stress out the goby in the QT again...

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Your fish almost absolutely has Ich. Read the following:
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27003

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50933

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27155

 

[krisfal]

Are the spots small like salt or are they bigger, another disease that shows up as white spots is lymphocystis, but the spots are much larger than ich

 

[ac7av]

I read an article from a marine biologist that suggested that almost all blue tangs have some signs of marine ick. I can’t find it as the moment but for some reason it sounded like they can carry it for longer periods of time and if they become stressed can be more vulnerable to an outbreak of the ick. It is possible that it may just be tissue damage from the move or hitting something in the tank. I have seen something very closely looking like ick off and on in my tank on a fish but never turns out to be anything. I can not describe how it looks and have had my fair share if ick in the past I can say just from an experience standpoint the white specks I’ve seen on my fish from time to time do not look like ick I’ve seen in the past but its imposable to describe the difference. If it is ick, you tank is infected and even though all the other fish look fine they will be showing signs almost certainly after the first cycle of the parasite. Keep a very close eye on them. If the spots disappear that does not mean it’s gone.

 

[ac7av]

Tang marks can look like ich to. The difference is you could see irritation or swelling abound the area.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Tang marks can look like ich to. The difference is you could see irritation or swelling abound the area.

Please explain what "tang marks" are? No other fish is more susceptible to marine Ich

 

[ac7av]

I have had an occasion of my naso’s getting frisky and one gets a poke. In a day or so it has the look of a speck of ich. Little white dot. The difference on that is you can see a discolorations around the area on the fish along with white dot. Not a deep stab or cut just a small attitude correction tap. I know tangs are more susceptible to ich and the blue tangs for some reason seem to be the most affected from what I’ve read.

 

[leebca]

Sorry. I have been traveling the last 27 hours -- back home from Europe.

In reading the first post of this thread I note an error in handling the QT process. You may start a QT up with DT water, but all water changes have to be using newly prepared water. You should review the QT procedure: A Quarantine Procedure

By continuously using DT water for water changes, your fish hasn't begun its quarantine yet! So forget the 5 weeks. Start using new water for water changes and consider now to be the beginning of its quarantine.

Most likely Marine Ich from your description. Just follow the guidelines you find here: Curing fish of Marine Ich

The above link will help you with the diagnosis. Links given in the above post will also tell you why and how it is easy to not see this parasite -- that's why the quarantine period is no less than 6 weeks.

Under the circumstances of how you've handled the QT process, I'm not sure the DT water has Marine Ich in it or the new fish has brought it with it. If the DT is infected, all fish in or connected to the DT must be treated.

 

[NWDiver]

Fishy: Thanks, I read all the icky stickies before I posted I am interested in how to more positively identify the issue as MI

Krisfal: The spots are very small and only visable in the translucent part of the right pectoral fin.

Ac7av: They are very small and don't look like a physical trauma.

It's ok, I was gone as well
Is there a more definitive method of identifying MI or is it that there are few\no other issues that present with little white dots?
I don't understand why using DT water in the QT is okay to start and not later, I would think that if you use a sponge filter from the sump, and start with DT water, you would have imported most bad things from the start.
As I said in the post, the tang is in the DT so if the DT didn't have MI, it does now.
Thanks for your insight,
-Todd

 

[leebca]

There are a group of symptoms for Marine Ich. However those same symptoms match other pathogens, normal behavior (up to a limit), and injuries. So, the best you have to go by are the spots.

The whole 'using the DT water" and the 'sponge filter seeded from the DT system' from the start is to some extent assuming the marine life in the DT system have been quarantined. If the DT is 'sick' or contaminated with MI, then all the fish in the system need treatment and the MI removed from the DT. The QT of new fish would be to cure those fish of other ailments and to train to eat, yet curing them of MI would be a waste if the DT has it already.

If you believe that that MI is in the DT, then get it out. You can assume there is no MI in the DT if you can find no spots. But after the quarantine of this fish (properly) and the known verification that this fish is absolutely free of MI and then putting it into the DT, and it (or another fish) shows the spots of MI, then you know your DT is contaminated/infected.

 

[NWDiver]

Thanks a bunch Lee. I will move forward with the treatment on the tang and watch the other guys to see if they develop symptoms. I'm a little concerned about seeing issues with the goby as he is mostly white already I figure that if I see nothing on the DT residents and after QTing the tang again, he will be like the canary in the coalmine to test the DT for me.

Do you have thoughts on making the goby (orange spotted sand-sifter) comfortable in QT if he has to go through that again? He does eat pellets, so food should be okay.

 

[leebca]

Fish that bury themselves or sift substrates can be accommodated in the quarantine process. Two major choices: Put in a large bowl of pure silica sand. When the quarantine is over, remove the bowl. Another is to put in a layer of pure silica sand in the QT.

Pure silica sand is okay. It doesn't interact with anything. It just can't be real deep AND it must be pure. Some sand comes mixed in with carbonates and this sand should not be used. You can test for the difference.

If you take some of the 'sand' and put 1 Tablespoon full in some diluted (1:3) vinegar, pure silica won't bubble or fizz. The vinegar will react with any carbonates that might be present, indicating the sand is not 'pure' silica.

 

[NWDiver]

I will do the sand test this time
I just used a pyrex dish with about 1 inch of sand, he didn't see really happy with it, but better than MI I was not using medication, so I didn't think of using silica.
Thanks for the info!

-Todd