mwebber28
Well-known member
Has anyone used Two Little Fishes C-Balance. I've been thinking about it from the easy application aspect but it seems rather expensive. Any other ideas for Ca++ Mg++ and Alk replacement would appreciated.
C-Balance
- Thread starter mwebber28
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Krish
RF STAFF
Welcome to RF!!! :welcome:. I've used the 2 part B-Ionic. Take a peek at that. Depending on the size of your tank and inhabitants (meaning how much calcium etc is being used up) will determine how much of it you will need at each dose. 
bodycology21
Well-known member
You can check out bulk reef supplies.com they have a cal. and alk supplement that is reasonable.
I've used it for years on my nanos with good results. But as Bodycology21 mentioned, you may give Bulk Reef Supply a checking into.
And fnally there is the DIY approach too. I found it on another forum site and can post the info here if you're interested. Or I can pm you the link.
Basics for DIY are; Alkalinity=Arm & Hammer Baking Soda, Calcium=Calcium Chloride Hydroxide ( Calcium Chloride ), and Magnesium=Epsom salts.
Cheers,
Alex
And fnally there is the DIY approach too. I found it on another forum site and can post the info here if you're interested. Or I can pm you the link.
Basics for DIY are; Alkalinity=Arm & Hammer Baking Soda, Calcium=Calcium Chloride Hydroxide ( Calcium Chloride ), and Magnesium=Epsom salts.
Cheers,
Alex
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mwebber28
Well-known member
First off thanks for the welcome and I look forward to learning from you seasoned veterans.
I guess it would have helped a bit if I mentioned that I'm running a 75gal with T-5 and a simple sump system. I do 15gal water changes every 3-4 weeks outside of that I dont supplement any ions other than Ca++, cant remmember the name but basicly its a coraline acclerator and that I typicaly use half way between water changes. I dont currently test for Mag++ but will get a kit when I go to the shop on Monday(didnt realize it was that important untill I read boomers link).
So here is what I have,
Corals; various zoos and mushrooms, a torch coral, bubble coral, 2 leathers(fiji yellow and devils hand), lobo brain and some zenia. Various fish, 2 cleaner shrimp and a bubble anenome.
I plan to add an Acan and perhaps a war coral.
So I guess what my question should have been was is there a more cost effective method that is just as simple as the C-balance system and is the C-balance system really even the right product for the job.
I will check out the B-ionic and look at the web site. Splbnd2 i'm going to pm you for the link.
Thanks again for the answers and help.
I guess it would have helped a bit if I mentioned that I'm running a 75gal with T-5 and a simple sump system. I do 15gal water changes every 3-4 weeks outside of that I dont supplement any ions other than Ca++, cant remmember the name but basicly its a coraline acclerator and that I typicaly use half way between water changes. I dont currently test for Mag++ but will get a kit when I go to the shop on Monday(didnt realize it was that important untill I read boomers link).
So here is what I have,
Corals; various zoos and mushrooms, a torch coral, bubble coral, 2 leathers(fiji yellow and devils hand), lobo brain and some zenia. Various fish, 2 cleaner shrimp and a bubble anenome.
I plan to add an Acan and perhaps a war coral.
So I guess what my question should have been was is there a more cost effective method that is just as simple as the C-balance system and is the C-balance system really even the right product for the job.
I will check out the B-ionic and look at the web site. Splbnd2 i'm going to pm you for the link.
Thanks again for the answers and help.
mwebber28
Well-known member
I was going to PM you spllbnd2 but I cant do it untill my post count is 3. Well look at that post count 3, PM on its way.
Alec feel free to post the info here or a link, I dont have a problem with folks linking to any site as long as it is going to help education or enlighten another member, man thats whats this site is supposed to be all about.
Mwebber one thing to concider is that your SW is constructed in a particular manner, as in it is a sum of all its parts, so cal, alk,mg,chroride, sulfate and so on. Products like Bionic are also designed in the same manner so when you add it to your system your not just adding cal and alk but every element that makes up the SW. If you just have one or two elements that are low it would be best to just raise them so you dont upset the balance of your tank and upset the salinity. Here is a link to a quick concept behind the elements in SW.
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f14/simple-water-chemistry-59569/
hope it helps
Mojo
Mwebber one thing to concider is that your SW is constructed in a particular manner, as in it is a sum of all its parts, so cal, alk,mg,chroride, sulfate and so on. Products like Bionic are also designed in the same manner so when you add it to your system your not just adding cal and alk but every element that makes up the SW. If you just have one or two elements that are low it would be best to just raise them so you dont upset the balance of your tank and upset the salinity. Here is a link to a quick concept behind the elements in SW.
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f14/simple-water-chemistry-59569/
hope it helps
Mojo
Here's a link about DIY additives for Calcium, Alkalinity and Magnesium.
DIY Reef additive collection.............. - Nano-Reef.com Forums
Cheers,
Alex
DIY Reef additive collection.............. - Nano-Reef.com Forums
Cheers,
Alex
mwebber28
Well-known member
Thanks Alex
mwebber28
Well-known member
Mojo,
Thanks for the link I think it helped a bunch but just to make sure here is what I'm getting from your post.
"At nsw salinity of 35ppt or 1.025-6 calcium is balanced at 415ppm, magnesium at 1290 and a alkalinity level of 2.5meq or 7-8dkh.
Now if you run your tank at a lower salinity the amount of elelments the sw can hold will go down exponentically. So lets say some one runs their salinity at 1.023 or 30ppt. your bucket is smaller so you can only have 30000 marbles in it, all your elements in that bucket would be reduced by 14 %, so cal would be 354, mag would be 1101 and alk would be affected the same way. Each point of salinity you drop will reduce your element levels by 3.5 %."
So I'm going to base my calculations off your table of NSM at 1.025, CA 415, MG 1290 and ALK 7, and incorporate a 3.5% reduction in these elements.
This gives me a table that looks like this, NSW 1.024, CA 400, MG 1244 and ALK 6.75. NSW 1.023, CA 354, MG 1101, ALK 6.521.
Now if I understand correctly then I should be shooting for the coresponding element level above based soley on my salinity and not a recomended baseline of say CA at 400 ect.
This, if I'm on the right track, means that my current water settings are poisenious as my CA is 420 with a salinity of 1.024, correct? I recently had a frogspawn that the flesh seperated from the stalk. Would it be safe to say that the CA level was a major cause of this?
I think I'm going away from the one bottle solves all approach and will dose each element individualy.
Great stuff, thanks a ton.
matt
Thanks for the link I think it helped a bunch but just to make sure here is what I'm getting from your post.
"At nsw salinity of 35ppt or 1.025-6 calcium is balanced at 415ppm, magnesium at 1290 and a alkalinity level of 2.5meq or 7-8dkh.
Now if you run your tank at a lower salinity the amount of elelments the sw can hold will go down exponentically. So lets say some one runs their salinity at 1.023 or 30ppt. your bucket is smaller so you can only have 30000 marbles in it, all your elements in that bucket would be reduced by 14 %, so cal would be 354, mag would be 1101 and alk would be affected the same way. Each point of salinity you drop will reduce your element levels by 3.5 %."
So I'm going to base my calculations off your table of NSM at 1.025, CA 415, MG 1290 and ALK 7, and incorporate a 3.5% reduction in these elements.
This gives me a table that looks like this, NSW 1.024, CA 400, MG 1244 and ALK 6.75. NSW 1.023, CA 354, MG 1101, ALK 6.521.
Now if I understand correctly then I should be shooting for the coresponding element level above based soley on my salinity and not a recomended baseline of say CA at 400 ect.
This, if I'm on the right track, means that my current water settings are poisenious as my CA is 420 with a salinity of 1.024, correct? I recently had a frogspawn that the flesh seperated from the stalk. Would it be safe to say that the CA level was a major cause of this?
I think I'm going away from the one bottle solves all approach and will dose each element individualy.
Great stuff, thanks a ton.
matt
No worries, I am glad to offer up advice when I can.
mwebber28
Well-known member
No Matt your Cal levels are not concidered poisenious at that that level at all as their is an acceptable range for most elements. But I am sure you now get the concept.
Yeah, I didnt think that through properly but I do understand it though.
I'm thinking the B-ionic for CA and ALK with a seperate Mag suplement might be the best/ safest way for me to start with.
Thanks for all the help and info guys.
matt
Yeah, I didnt think that through properly but I do understand it though.
I'm thinking the B-ionic for CA and ALK with a seperate Mag suplement might be the best/ safest way for me to start with.
Thanks for all the help and info guys.
matt
Yea Matt I was just trying to show you how things operate in a balanced manner when it comes to SW and salinity is always the base from which you must start. Products like bionic or similar are designed to put multiple elements in at a level balance. So if you only have one or two elements that have been reduced in the tank it should be thoughs that you raise, in saying that you can get away with a products like that a couple of times for alk and cal but continued use is not going to be a good idea as it will skew you balance in the long run
hope it helps
Mojo
hope it helps
Mojo
mwebber28
Well-known member
Mojo,
"in saying that you can get away with a products like that a couple of times for alk and cal but continued use is not going to be a good idea as it will skew you balance in the long run"
I understand what your saying about the SW and salinity. That info has realy put things into a perspective and am greatfull for that.
As for B-ionic, I was under the impression that it did not contain any other elements like Mag and that is why I thought it would be a good product for CA and Alk. I guess I need to investigate it further.
What I want to do is maintain each element seperatly, as you suggest, to achieve maximal results. So having said that what do you recomend, brand wise, for replacing/ adjusting Mag, Ca and Alk sepeartly.
Thanks again,
matt
"in saying that you can get away with a products like that a couple of times for alk and cal but continued use is not going to be a good idea as it will skew you balance in the long run"
I understand what your saying about the SW and salinity. That info has realy put things into a perspective and am greatfull for that.
As for B-ionic, I was under the impression that it did not contain any other elements like Mag and that is why I thought it would be a good product for CA and Alk. I guess I need to investigate it further.
What I want to do is maintain each element seperatly, as you suggest, to achieve maximal results. So having said that what do you recomend, brand wise, for replacing/ adjusting Mag, Ca and Alk sepeartly.
Thanks again,
matt
Well Matt this is on the bottle
So yea I would say its going to add to the whole equation. So if you only have a depleted cal or alk or mag then I would suggest to dose only what you need. Now if you like this product line they do have individual element dosing products. Or if you are thrifty then I would go with what Spellbnd showed you as it is just as effective.
To help you figure out how much of each element you will need to dose to get it where you want it. I would suggest looking at this link to help you calculate
Aquarium Calculators
Hope it helps
Mike
So yea I would say its going to add to the whole equation. So if you only have a depleted cal or alk or mag then I would suggest to dose only what you need. Now if you like this product line they do have individual element dosing products. Or if you are thrifty then I would go with what Spellbnd showed you as it is just as effective.
To help you figure out how much of each element you will need to dose to get it where you want it. I would suggest looking at this link to help you calculate
Aquarium Calculators
Hope it helps
Mike
mwebber28
Well-known member
Understood and thanks again for the help.
