cal/alk and ph not sure if this is a problem in my tank...

[ilektrik22]

Alright, so I read holygral's thread, and did the "required readings" but i'm still a little bit confused.

I finally got my salifert kits and have gone testing mad, which has opened up a new can of worms. I'm not sure if I should be conserned or lesse faire

Alk-2.74 meq/L this is alright right?

calcium is 210 ppm, use IO salt, 15% water change weekly. According to the readings, I should be adding calcium chloride ( have started with kent liquid suppliment, adding a few drops everyday to eventually get within desired range.)

pH is 8.0, is this something I should be conserned about? I believe it's within the desired range, I don't think I should to be adding anything to increase it otherwise my alk will increase aswell. Could this value be related to too much CO2 in my tank? or is that with extreamly low pH or did I just misread that part?

no idea about mag. supplier was out. Is there any test kits other then salifert ( have to get that mailed to me) that works decently?

other tank facts:
use distilled water, SG 1.025, all my inhabitants (4 shrimps, lots of snails and crabs, along with candycane and some sps) are happily shedding and growing

 

[DonW]

2.7mg/L should be 7.7 of the top of my head, IMO thats a little low. 210 ppm CA is also low. I would just do a few water changes but boost the CA to 420in the fresh mix with calcium chloride. Alk should be ok. After a few of these you should be pretty close. Probably bump it up to 25% for a few weeks.
After youve done this monitor your ca and alk consumption. Once you find out the consumption you can dose to maintain. Ignore the ph until you learn a little more about chemistry, your safe where your at. Keep checking back we'll help you learn to keep everything in line.

Goodluck
Don

 

[ilektrik22]

I'm so torn up about this

I understand that we want to keep all parameters at the "ideal" level. But anyone who does any chemistry in the real world ( i work in the enviro. analytical organic chem.) knows that in real life the ideal does not exist.

That being said I would like my parameters to be within range, I'm pretty sure that the low pH is do to the distilled water, but it's still within range, and my alk is a little low, but again within range, and I use IO salt which is known to have low calcium, so if i just slowly dose up the calcium ( don't want to throw things out of wack to quickly) and eventually hit the "within range number" I should be alright yes?

I think I believe i have a large calcium consumption in my systme ( sps's candycane lots on inverts and coralline production and urchin destruction of it)

 

[DonW]

I'm so torn up about this

I understand that we want to keep all parameters at the "ideal" level. But anyone who does any chemistry in the real world ( i work in the enviro. analytical organic chem.) knows that in real life the ideal does not exist.

That being said I would like my parameters to be within range, I'm pretty sure that the low pH is do to the distilled water, but it's still within range, and my alk is a little low, but again within range, and I use IO salt which is known to have low calcium, so if i just slowly dose up the calcium ( don't want to throw things out of wack to quickly) and eventually hit the "within range number" I should be alright yes?

I think I believe i have a large calcium consumption in my systme ( sps's candycane lots on inverts and coralline production and urchin destruction of it)

Its not the getting it there that is difficult its the keeping it there. Do you have a large calcium consumption, that depends how you define large. If you brought your alk up abit you may just find your ph rise. Once you find your consuption you can dose but you have to get everything in balance. Your comment about not being able to reach and maintain parameters at the ideal is not at all accurate. Once you get the hang of it its very simple.

Don

 

[Boomer]

ilek


Alk-2.74 meq/L this is alright right?

That is higher than reefs but many like to run it a little higher like in the 3's.


calcium is 210 ppm, use IO salt, 15% water change weekly

The tank correct ? What does the new IO mix read ? It should be around 360 - 380 or so and an Alk of 4 meq / l or so.

When you mix up the salt you are not adding water to the saltmix are you ? This will change the solution kinetics and cause the precip of Ca++ and drop the Alk. You must add salt to the water.

210 in the tank is possible, if it has been along time since you check the Ca++ ? 10 ppm Ca++ / day is not uncommon.

pH is 8.0, is this something I should be conserned about?

That is Ok but it would be nicer to be tad higher.

Could this value be related to too much CO2 in my tank?

Yes that is affecting the pH. Normal seawater is around 0.50 mg / l CO2 and you are at almost 1.00 mg / l. If you took a sample and aerated it heavily for a few hrs outside it should go up to 8.3 or so.


I should be adding calcium chloride ( have started with kent liquid suppliment, adding a few drops everyday to eventually get within desired range.)

It is Ok to increase it 50 ppm / day. But I would do some large water changes first to get things more in line, which will have less offset in ionic imbalance from all the chloride ions being added from CaCl2 and increasing it 200 ppm.

I'm pretty sure that the low pH is do to the distilled water

The pH if the DW has nothing to do with it. The water will take on the pH and Alk of the salt mix.

Finally, that 210 may be a testing error. Corals and Coralline do little growing at 210 Ca++.

 

[ilektrik22]

The tank correct ? What does the new IO mix read ? It should be around 360 - 380 or so and an Alk of 4 meq / l or so.

have not tested the new water ( only had the kits for a day, haven't made water yet) will do that this weekend

You must add salt to the water.
always do

210 in the tank is possible, if it has been along time since you check the Ca++ ? 10 ppm Ca++ / day is not uncommon.
never checked calcium before as i just got the kit (there were customs problems...mainly they gave me an empty box ), the tank has only been up for 3 months

Finally, that 210 may be a testing error. Corals and Coralline do little growing at 210 Ca++.
I did the test twice, both times happened to be the day before I did a water change(and confirmed it a second time yestarday). I was suprised that it was so low since everything is growing/spliting, but the tank is a 30g, with 3-5 gallon water change weekly, and never (until 2 days ago) have i used any additives. With such a small tank things can jump quick. I will also be adding a 20g sump this week, can i use that as my big "water change" as I will be adding 20g of new water to the system?

thanks

 

[Boomer]

OK, keep me posted

 

[ilektrik22]

So I tested my makeup SW

alk : 2.4 diluted test, and 3.20 with the undiluted test( regular strength)
cal:4.00
pH: bw 8.0-8.3 ( closer to 8.0)

all done with salifert test kits.

 

[Boomer]

That all looks good.

cal:4.00 You mean 400, not 4.00 correct ?

 

[ilektrik22]

yeah 400.

I will test my tank tonight to see what the levels are after the water change.

 

[mmkeeper]

Here is a graphing program that can help you see if your Ca and Alk are in balance. http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot.html

 

[ilektrik22]

okay so I finally hooked up my sump to my display tank, and now I have a problem....

So In the sump I added the agri-live pink sand, when it finally settled I attached the sump/fuge to the display, now all my corals look made at me, and my chemistry is even worse then before. ( I should also add that my tank is kind of cloudy, from the flow in the sump/fuge starting up, not sure if this could be the reason for my sad corals)

so the results now are

sg 1.024 (good)
pH 8.0 ( but leaning towards 7.9)
Alk 3.31. meq/l (9.3 dKH)
calcium 330ppm

now my alkalinity is really high! Before I set up my sump i was adding 2-3 drops of liquid calcium to my tank to raise the calcium levels, and my alk was stable.

so now what do i do?

thanks
Yvonne

( or are my corals just shocked at the moment?)

 

[DonW]

okay so I finally hooked up my sump to my display tank, and now I have a problem....

So In the sump I added the agri-live pink sand, when it finally settled I attached the sump/fuge to the display, now all my corals look made at me, and my chemistry is even worse then before. ( I should also add that my tank is kind of cloudy, from the flow in the sump/fuge starting up, not sure if this could be the reason for my sad corals)

so the results now are

sg 1.024 (good)
pH 8.0 ( but leaning towards 7.9)
Alk 3.31. meq/l (9.3 dKH)
calcium 330ppm

now my alkalinity is really high! Before I set up my sump i was adding 2-3 drops of liquid calcium to my tank to raise the calcium levels, and my alk was stable.

so now what do i do?

thanks
Yvonne

( or are my corals just shocked at the moment?)

Corals dont like cloudy water. Just dose ca your alk is fine. What salt mix did you use to fill the new sump?

Don

 

[ilektrik22]

same as always, IO,

I'll try and keep bringing that calcium up then

 

[ilektrik22]

okay so now i'm having pH swings, 7.9-8.0 during the day, to 7.7 in the morning before lights on. Should have never added the sump

So should i try keeping my sump on during alternating light cycles?

 

[DonW]

okay so now i'm having pH swings, 7.9-8.0 during the day, to 7.7 in the morning before lights on. Should have never added the sump

So should i try keeping my sump on during alternating light cycles?

I think the easiest way to deal with that is to turn off your ph meter. Ive been fighting almost the exact same numbers for two years. I finally went back and looked at my ph log last week. Out of 104 weeks 97 of them had almost exactly those same numbers. All my corals, clams and fish are fine. If you know for sure that nutrients are not the problem I'd ignore it.

Don

 

[Boomer]

I would agee with Don. It is to often in this hobby people try to get to some number they have dreamed up and if they can't get there something is wrong. They then try ever method in the book to achive such numbers and end up with just more problems.

You could try to do a kalk drip at night to get it al little higher.

Take a look at this 7.8-8.5 OK

Reef Aquarium Water Parameters
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

Thes may help you understandd things better

Low pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

Indoor CO2 Problems
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/apr2002/short.htm

 

[ilektrik22]

I read the readings( thank you, all makes sence now, we were keeping the screen door open for a bit every night to let fresh air into the house, until a few days ago, at which time Toronto decided that winter was finally coming.



Another thing, my calcium is continously decreasing, if i did a kalk drip over night would that help with calcium? or should i just keep adding is separatly?

my parameters as of now are alk 2.98, cal 240 ( been adding liquid cal but my tank is sucking it up like nuts!!)sal 1.025, nitrate 0, pH 8.

 

[Boomer]

Yes the kalk will help the Ca++. You can raise the Ca++ with the calcium chloride 50 ppm / day until it gets to 400-425. I would do a water change first, to get it up more like. 50 % 1st day and another 50 % 3rd day

 

[jsmkmavity]

adding the sump shouldnt change the levels your testing but the new sand could, especially if you didnt rinse it first. after flowing thru the sump for a while it should stabilize. you may get a little nitrate spike until the sump walls and sand develope a bacteria balance but as long an ammonia and nitrite stay lo or no it shouldnt be a problem.