mark peacock
marine67
Hi guys any ideas on getting calcium down mine is very high i purchased a pinpoint calcium monitor and the reading is 1053ppm or should i let it come down on it own.
calc
- Thread starter mark peacock
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lizardarm
Reptilian Disco Biscuit
Are you sure your meter is calibrated correctly?
If it is, and your calcium is that high, you could start doing water changes; maybe 10% a day. I'm thinking that if it is really that high though that you should be seeing bad numbers on an alkalinity test too. If the calcium pushes your alk down, it can cause wild Ph swings.
If it is, and your calcium is that high, you could start doing water changes; maybe 10% a day. I'm thinking that if it is really that high though that you should be seeing bad numbers on an alkalinity test too. If the calcium pushes your alk down, it can cause wild Ph swings.
mal1099
Well-known member
with calc that high shouldnt it be turning everything white?
lizardarm
Reptilian Disco Biscuit
You'd think that there would be precipitation if it happened suddenly, or if the alk was out still in tolerance.
ronone10
Well-known member
Do you have another way of testing Calcium? Or take a water sample to a LFS...
mark peacock
marine67
Hi guys
it is that high i had a lobster which died 2 days ago and have less hermit crabs as well 2 acroporas have died as well
also noticed that my coraline alge is disappearing
which promted me that something was a drift
my water that i have ready for water changes is in the low 200rds and the ro water is 0
looks like water changes today to bring it down.
it is that high i had a lobster which died 2 days ago and have less hermit crabs as well 2 acroporas have died as well
also noticed that my coraline alge is disappearing
which promted me that something was a drift
my water that i have ready for water changes is in the low 200rds and the ro water is 0
looks like water changes today to bring it down.
Kurt_Nelson
Well-known member
I'm scratching my head how you can have mixed saltwater in the low 200s and a tank with greater than 1000. What brand salt mix are you using? I'm assuming you've been dosing with something in your tank if you truly have >1000?
mark peacock
marine67
i dont know whats going on i do dose with calcium but it has spiked really high and at a loss of how.
i am doind water changes to get it down never in the nearly six years i have been do the this hobby that this has happened
going to my lfs tomorrow with a sample to see what he gets
mark
i am doind water changes to get it down never in the nearly six years i have been do the this hobby that this has happened
going to my lfs tomorrow with a sample to see what he gets
mark
i dont know whats going on i do dose with calcium but it has spiked really high and at a loss of how.
i am doind water changes to get it down never in the nearly six years i have been do the this hobby that this has happened
going to my lfs tomorrow with a sample to see what he gets
mark
Did you check your PH? If the PH is low cal will leach from your rock and substrate.
mark peacock
marine67
my ph is fine its been around 8.1 and my alk is 9 so i dont know at this point my calcium is coming down slowly
still in the dark on what made it go that high
mark
still in the dark on what made it go that high
mark
ALK is a function of PH so you can not have high ALK and PH is not high. One is your PH read is wrong or your ALK read is wrong. My bet is your PH is wrong. You PH might be in be close to 9 that might kill some of your live stock. Be carefull of what you do. You might have a case of supper saturation where you could triger a white out in your tank.
What I would do is to do 50% water change.
What I would do is to do 50% water change.
cali_reef
Well-known member
I would buy a new Ca test kit and check again. How are you testing your PH and KH?
What's your Mg?
What's your Mg?
I use seachem titration to do PH/KH/Mg/Cal.
My Mg is High and with on the recommendation of seachem test kit. I think it is 1300 or 13000.
I some time think I got a false reading and then I run a reference test using the ref sample they included in the kit.
Your Cal is high but your ph and alk is OK then there are something else buffering the cal and hold it in solution. What cal product are you dosing? Also High Cal would not kill your live stock.
Check to see if you do not have too much C02 or lack of oxygen in the tank in the lower part of your tank. That could kill your live stock.
Take sample on the lower part of your tank and see if the ALK or PH is the same as your upper sample. If they are different, then you need to have more water moving arround in your tank.
C02 could come from a number of sources. Bacteria, and live stock. If you dose your tank with some sort of sugar then the bacteria will consume all the oxygen and produce C02. In that case it will drive the ph and alk down and then Cal are being release into the water from substrate and rock and also phospate.
I used to dose cal that come in a brown looking liquid where it has it own buffering. I don't use it any more. I stick to Calcium carbonate and Mg powder.
I get better result and it is dirt cheap compare to the other stuff.
My PH range from 8.2 to 8.5. My hard and soft coral seem to enjoy the PH cal and alk level provided by the Calcium carbonate (Pickling Lime by from grocery store < $3 per pound).
My suggestion is to get a better test kit and do water change. Every thing we talk about is just guesses. Water change is for sure will fix your problem and new test kit will confirm it.
My Mg is High and with on the recommendation of seachem test kit. I think it is 1300 or 13000.
I some time think I got a false reading and then I run a reference test using the ref sample they included in the kit.
Your Cal is high but your ph and alk is OK then there are something else buffering the cal and hold it in solution. What cal product are you dosing? Also High Cal would not kill your live stock.
Check to see if you do not have too much C02 or lack of oxygen in the tank in the lower part of your tank. That could kill your live stock.
Take sample on the lower part of your tank and see if the ALK or PH is the same as your upper sample. If they are different, then you need to have more water moving arround in your tank.
C02 could come from a number of sources. Bacteria, and live stock. If you dose your tank with some sort of sugar then the bacteria will consume all the oxygen and produce C02. In that case it will drive the ph and alk down and then Cal are being release into the water from substrate and rock and also phospate.
I used to dose cal that come in a brown looking liquid where it has it own buffering. I don't use it any more. I stick to Calcium carbonate and Mg powder.
I get better result and it is dirt cheap compare to the other stuff.
My PH range from 8.2 to 8.5. My hard and soft coral seem to enjoy the PH cal and alk level provided by the Calcium carbonate (Pickling Lime by from grocery store < $3 per pound).
My suggestion is to get a better test kit and do water change. Every thing we talk about is just guesses. Water change is for sure will fix your problem and new test kit will confirm it.
Water changes will help with bringing a system back into balance. But until you find what the cause of the high Calcium levels you will only be heading up a creek without a paddle. Also as one mentioned earlier, live stock shouldn't be affected by a high calcium level, only corals will show.
Find out what is the cause and water chage until then. Also,what brand of test kit are you currently using and what is the date on it? What type of dosing system do you have? It may actually be overdosing your system. Check your equipment too.
Cheers,
Alex
Find out what is the cause and water chage until then. Also,what brand of test kit are you currently using and what is the date on it? What type of dosing system do you have? It may actually be overdosing your system. Check your equipment too.
Cheers,
Alex
rng_pw
Active member
I'm confused by what you are saying. I just tested my tank and ph is 8.1 and my alk is at 10. My calcium is at 430. This is about average tank parameters. Are you saying that because my alk is at 10 that my ph should also be that high? Any way back to the subject at hand. I also have a pinpoint calcium monitor and I hate it. It does'nt matter how much I calibrate it it is always giving me differente readings. If you have an lfs that sells salt water I would start by testing his water and if the parameters are good start doing 10 percent daily water changes until you see a change. Good luck
Why 10% WC? No one has even asked what size tank it is. And I for one say 25-30% WC if something is array. Would you only do a 10% WC after having to dose for flatworms? No.
Example: Say we do a 10% WC on a 100 gallon system. We are only diluting 10 gallons and leaving 90 gallons the same. So we are not changing then numbers by that much.
But if we do say a 25% WC on the same system then we are changing out 25 gallons and leaving 75 gallons. Still not a signifigant amount but may be enough to make a larger difference in the long run versus a 10% WC.
Just my opinion.
Alex
Example: Say we do a 10% WC on a 100 gallon system. We are only diluting 10 gallons and leaving 90 gallons the same. So we are not changing then numbers by that much.
But if we do say a 25% WC on the same system then we are changing out 25 gallons and leaving 75 gallons. Still not a signifigant amount but may be enough to make a larger difference in the long run versus a 10% WC.
Just my opinion.
Alex
rng_pw
Active member
I think the reason for a 10%daily change in my personal opinion would be because if the calcium is that high I would want to bring it down slow. I look at it the same way as if I was wanting to raise my calcium from 300 t0 450. I would'nt just add it all at once. 10% daily water change is for a safe gradual change until you are able to find the real sollution.
check this doc out It should give some decent answer on how to fix your problem.
pH, Calcium Alkalinity and Magnesium Explained
The goals of this article are to clearly and simply define pH, Calcium, Alkalinity and Magnesium, describe their relation to one another, demonstrate how to correct imbalances and examine different methods of dosing. For this article, I will reference “The Reef Aquarium - Volume 3,” by Julian Sprung and Charles Delbeek.
Definitions and Relationships
pH is the concentration of hydrogen (H+) to hydroxide (OH-) ions in a solution. pH can range from 0-14 with a pH of 0-6.99 being acidic, a pH of 7 being neutral and a pH of 7.01-14 being basic. pH is based on a logarithmic scale, so a pH of 9 is ten times more basic than a pH of 8 and a pH of 10 is one hundred times more basic than a pH of 8. pH generally varies from 7.9-8.4 in a saltwater aquarium.
**pH increases as oxygen levels increase.
**pH decreases as carbon dioxide levels increase.
**Some Calcium and Alkalinity additives like Kalkwasser increase pH.
**Some Alkalinity additives, like Soda Ash increase pH.
**Some Alkalinity additives, like Sodium Bicarbonate lower pH.
**pH increases cause calcium levels to decrease.
Calcium is one element that calcifying organisms like corals and clams require to grow. Calcium should be maintained at 400-450 mg/L. When calcium falls below 360 mg/L it may cause a decrease in coral growth (p. 203). If calcium rises disproportionally to alkalinity via dosing, it can cause a sudden drop in alkalinity and cause the calcium to precipitate into the water, creating a snow flake effect.
**Calcium increases as salinity levels increase.
**When Calcium increases as Alkalinity slightly decreases.
**Calcium and Alkalinity should be dosed in equal parts as corals require equal parts of each to grow.
Alkalinity is seawater’s ability to buffer the pH lowering effect of acids through carbonates and bicarbonates. Alkalinity is measured in two methods, meq/L and dKH. dkH can be determined by taking meq/L x 2.8. For example 2 meq/L = 5.6 dKH. Alkalinity should be maintained at 9-13 dKH.
**When Alkalinity increases Calcium slightly decreases.
The precipitation of calcium carbonate consumes its two components (calcium and alkalinity) in an exact 1:1 ratio. This corresponds to one meq/L (2.8 dKH) for every 20 ppm of calcium (p. 206).
Balanced Calcium and Alkalinity Ratios (p.207):
1.4 dKH to 350 ppm
2.1 dKH to 375 ppm
5.6 dKH to 400 ppm
9.1 dKH to 425 ppm
12.6 dKH to 450 ppm
16.1 dKH to 475 ppm
Magnesium has two important effects on saltwater reef aquariums. Magnesium increases the buffering capacity of saltwater against the pH lowering effect and reduces the rate of calcium precipitation. As a result it is easier to maintain and balance higher levels of calcium and alkalinity (p. 174). Magnesium levels should be maintained around 1350 ppm.
**Magnesium increases as salinity levels increases.
Correcting Imbalances
Quality Test Kits are absolutely critical. Without accurate readings you may have problems, but not know it, or everything may be fine, but the test kits show faulty results. Discovery Aquatics recommends using ELOS, Salifert (with exception to their alkalinity, tendency to give extreme false highs), LaMotte, Merck and Tropic Marin.
There are four main problems that can exist:
1. Both Calcium and Alkalinity are too high.
2. Both Calcium and Alkalinity are too low.
3. Calcium is too high relative to Alkalinity.
4. Alkalinity is too high relative to Calcium.
1. Both Calcium and Alkalinity are too high. If both calcium and alkalinity are balanced, the problem should correct itself overtime as calcium and alkalinity are used up equally.
2. Both Calcium and Alkalinity are too low. If both calcium and alkalinity are balanced, you need to add equal portions of a calcium and alkalinity supplement, like B-Ionic. If the problem is not easily corrected, test your magnesium. If your magnesium readings are below 1200ppm, dose magnesium accordingly.
3. Calcium is too high relative to Alkalinity. Your calcium to alkalinity ratio is unbalanced; you need to increase your alkalinity supplement. Do not add kalkwasser or other calcium balanced additives, as this will only continue to raise calcium. Instead, only dose alkalinity or the alkalinity portion of a two part supplement, like B-Ionic. If the problem is not easily corrected, test your magnesium. If your magnesium readings are below 1200ppm, dose magnesium accordingly.
4. Alkalinity is too high relative to Calcium. Your calcium to alkalinity ratio is unbalanced; you need to increase your calcium supplement. Do not add kalkwasser or other calcium balanced additives, as this will only continue to raise alkalinity. Instead, only dose calcium or the calcium portion of a two part supplement, like B-Ionic. If the problem is not easily corrected, test your magnesium. If your magnesium readings are below 1200ppm, dose magnesium accordingly.
Dosing Methods
Kalkwasser powder contains an equal portion of calcium and alkalinity. Kalkwasser is best used in aquariums with low to medium calcium demand, or in combination with another calcium supplement. Kalkwasser is made by mixing 2 tablespoons of powder per gallon of fresh water. Then use the kalkwasser mix as part of your evaporation top of water in combination with fresh RODI water. The biggest disadvantage of kalkwasser is it can be messy to make and can create pH spikes if overdosed. Avoid pH spikes by monitoring your pH as kalkwasser. Kalkwasser can also be used to eliminate aiptasia. The most readily available brand of kalkwasser is Kent Marine.
Two-Part supplements usually contain a bottle of calcium and a bottle of alkalinity. These supplements are added daily in equal portions to the aquarium to create an ionic balance. The system is best used in aquariums with medium calcium demand. The major advantage to two-part is that calcium and alkalinity imbalances can be corrected without purchasing any additional supplements. The disadvantage is that it requires daily dosing to the aquariums, (to solve this problem aquarists have purchased peristaltic dosing pumps and digital timers to automate and control dosing). There are many two-part supplements available, we prefer to use ESV B-Ionic and tend to avoid Kent Marine Liquid Calcium and Alkalinity.
Calcium Reactors are for aquariums with high calcium demand, usually large SPS Coral systems. Calcium reactors use CO2 to breakdown calcium media, which then releases an equal part of calcium and alkalinity into the water. Once dialed in, a calcium reactor can go several months without the addition of media, but it should be monitored closely. The setup can be costly as you will need a calcium reactor, calcium media, CO2 tank, solenoid, bubble counter, CO2 safe tubing and a pH monitor and controller. An aquarium running a calcium reactor must have a pH monitor and controller because the effluent of the reactor is CO2 saturated, which means it has a low pH. If the pH drops below 8.X then the pH monitor should send a signal to the controller to turn off the CO2 injector. Note: A calcium reactor is tuned into to the aquarium’s alkalinity, not its calcium level.
pH, Calcium Alkalinity and Magnesium Explained
The goals of this article are to clearly and simply define pH, Calcium, Alkalinity and Magnesium, describe their relation to one another, demonstrate how to correct imbalances and examine different methods of dosing. For this article, I will reference “The Reef Aquarium - Volume 3,” by Julian Sprung and Charles Delbeek.
Definitions and Relationships
pH is the concentration of hydrogen (H+) to hydroxide (OH-) ions in a solution. pH can range from 0-14 with a pH of 0-6.99 being acidic, a pH of 7 being neutral and a pH of 7.01-14 being basic. pH is based on a logarithmic scale, so a pH of 9 is ten times more basic than a pH of 8 and a pH of 10 is one hundred times more basic than a pH of 8. pH generally varies from 7.9-8.4 in a saltwater aquarium.
**pH increases as oxygen levels increase.
**pH decreases as carbon dioxide levels increase.
**Some Calcium and Alkalinity additives like Kalkwasser increase pH.
**Some Alkalinity additives, like Soda Ash increase pH.
**Some Alkalinity additives, like Sodium Bicarbonate lower pH.
**pH increases cause calcium levels to decrease.
Calcium is one element that calcifying organisms like corals and clams require to grow. Calcium should be maintained at 400-450 mg/L. When calcium falls below 360 mg/L it may cause a decrease in coral growth (p. 203). If calcium rises disproportionally to alkalinity via dosing, it can cause a sudden drop in alkalinity and cause the calcium to precipitate into the water, creating a snow flake effect.
**Calcium increases as salinity levels increase.
**When Calcium increases as Alkalinity slightly decreases.
**Calcium and Alkalinity should be dosed in equal parts as corals require equal parts of each to grow.
Alkalinity is seawater’s ability to buffer the pH lowering effect of acids through carbonates and bicarbonates. Alkalinity is measured in two methods, meq/L and dKH. dkH can be determined by taking meq/L x 2.8. For example 2 meq/L = 5.6 dKH. Alkalinity should be maintained at 9-13 dKH.
**When Alkalinity increases Calcium slightly decreases.
The precipitation of calcium carbonate consumes its two components (calcium and alkalinity) in an exact 1:1 ratio. This corresponds to one meq/L (2.8 dKH) for every 20 ppm of calcium (p. 206).
Balanced Calcium and Alkalinity Ratios (p.207):
1.4 dKH to 350 ppm
2.1 dKH to 375 ppm
5.6 dKH to 400 ppm
9.1 dKH to 425 ppm
12.6 dKH to 450 ppm
16.1 dKH to 475 ppm
Magnesium has two important effects on saltwater reef aquariums. Magnesium increases the buffering capacity of saltwater against the pH lowering effect and reduces the rate of calcium precipitation. As a result it is easier to maintain and balance higher levels of calcium and alkalinity (p. 174). Magnesium levels should be maintained around 1350 ppm.
**Magnesium increases as salinity levels increases.
Correcting Imbalances
Quality Test Kits are absolutely critical. Without accurate readings you may have problems, but not know it, or everything may be fine, but the test kits show faulty results. Discovery Aquatics recommends using ELOS, Salifert (with exception to their alkalinity, tendency to give extreme false highs), LaMotte, Merck and Tropic Marin.
There are four main problems that can exist:
1. Both Calcium and Alkalinity are too high.
2. Both Calcium and Alkalinity are too low.
3. Calcium is too high relative to Alkalinity.
4. Alkalinity is too high relative to Calcium.
1. Both Calcium and Alkalinity are too high. If both calcium and alkalinity are balanced, the problem should correct itself overtime as calcium and alkalinity are used up equally.
2. Both Calcium and Alkalinity are too low. If both calcium and alkalinity are balanced, you need to add equal portions of a calcium and alkalinity supplement, like B-Ionic. If the problem is not easily corrected, test your magnesium. If your magnesium readings are below 1200ppm, dose magnesium accordingly.
3. Calcium is too high relative to Alkalinity. Your calcium to alkalinity ratio is unbalanced; you need to increase your alkalinity supplement. Do not add kalkwasser or other calcium balanced additives, as this will only continue to raise calcium. Instead, only dose alkalinity or the alkalinity portion of a two part supplement, like B-Ionic. If the problem is not easily corrected, test your magnesium. If your magnesium readings are below 1200ppm, dose magnesium accordingly.
4. Alkalinity is too high relative to Calcium. Your calcium to alkalinity ratio is unbalanced; you need to increase your calcium supplement. Do not add kalkwasser or other calcium balanced additives, as this will only continue to raise alkalinity. Instead, only dose calcium or the calcium portion of a two part supplement, like B-Ionic. If the problem is not easily corrected, test your magnesium. If your magnesium readings are below 1200ppm, dose magnesium accordingly.
Dosing Methods
Kalkwasser powder contains an equal portion of calcium and alkalinity. Kalkwasser is best used in aquariums with low to medium calcium demand, or in combination with another calcium supplement. Kalkwasser is made by mixing 2 tablespoons of powder per gallon of fresh water. Then use the kalkwasser mix as part of your evaporation top of water in combination with fresh RODI water. The biggest disadvantage of kalkwasser is it can be messy to make and can create pH spikes if overdosed. Avoid pH spikes by monitoring your pH as kalkwasser. Kalkwasser can also be used to eliminate aiptasia. The most readily available brand of kalkwasser is Kent Marine.
Two-Part supplements usually contain a bottle of calcium and a bottle of alkalinity. These supplements are added daily in equal portions to the aquarium to create an ionic balance. The system is best used in aquariums with medium calcium demand. The major advantage to two-part is that calcium and alkalinity imbalances can be corrected without purchasing any additional supplements. The disadvantage is that it requires daily dosing to the aquariums, (to solve this problem aquarists have purchased peristaltic dosing pumps and digital timers to automate and control dosing). There are many two-part supplements available, we prefer to use ESV B-Ionic and tend to avoid Kent Marine Liquid Calcium and Alkalinity.
Calcium Reactors are for aquariums with high calcium demand, usually large SPS Coral systems. Calcium reactors use CO2 to breakdown calcium media, which then releases an equal part of calcium and alkalinity into the water. Once dialed in, a calcium reactor can go several months without the addition of media, but it should be monitored closely. The setup can be costly as you will need a calcium reactor, calcium media, CO2 tank, solenoid, bubble counter, CO2 safe tubing and a pH monitor and controller. An aquarium running a calcium reactor must have a pH monitor and controller because the effluent of the reactor is CO2 saturated, which means it has a low pH. If the pH drops below 8.X then the pH monitor should send a signal to the controller to turn off the CO2 injector. Note: A calcium reactor is tuned into to the aquarium’s alkalinity, not its calcium level.
