Calfo Manifold for 180 gallon?

[Kimo]

Hey everyone -

I have a 180 gallon oceanic, with the 12in glass brace .

I have a closed loop with an Ampmaster 3000 going to 2 1.5" static outputs and 2 1" sea swirls (one is broken). I don't have enough flow, due to the locations of the outputs and a dirty pump

I'm going to clean the pump, so that part is easy. I was thinking about getting rid of the sea swirls and static outputs and building a Calfo manifold for the tank. I have 1.5" PVC going from the pump to the top of the tank, and I had enough forethought to put a union and Ball valve on the static line input so I can remove that manifold. I could just use the same setup to attach the new manifold, if I do go that route.

Some questions:

- 1.5" PVC is BIG. It seems that it would really take up a lot of space at the top of the tank. Would it be feasible to use 1" PVC as the manifold, and use 1.5" up to it? I CAN do it but I don't want to overwork my pump and/or lose a lot of flow.

- Placement. I have seen the manifold under the center brace and trim. That would be nice in my tank, since the center brace is so huge. Any comments/opinions?

- Locline. I want to avoid using locline, I would rather just use t's, a short piece of PVC and a 45 to direct the flow. Opinions?

- Examples. Anyone have examples of a manifold like this on a similar tank?

Thanks for the help!!

Jamie

 

[bc_slc]

they way you describe it is pretty much exactly the way Mr. Calfo likes it. Under the brace/lip to make it more low profile with T's and 45 deg elbows to direct flow. He would also likely say to keep the pipe big as long as possible to avoid losing precious flow to friction, but then to size down at the T and 45 deg to generate velocity.

Mat

 

[reedman]

My personal opinion is that the manifold is difficult to make work without a lot of thought as to plumbing size/placement. Lot's of 90 degree angles to get that to work which causes head loss.

My preference is to build a manifold of sorts across the back of the tank and use vinyl tubing to connect the outlets where I want them. This allows me to reconfigure without replumbing all the hard line. I just cut a new piece of vinyl tubing and plug it in. Add a sea swirl, delete one, move an outlet...all easy.

For my tank I have an AM3K as well. I run a 15" pipe stright up the middle of the back of the tank to a "T". Then I run to either end of the back with 4 outlets along the way. I use a 1.5 to 3/4" reducer and add a thread to bard fitting to that. Vinyl from there to the outlet where I use locline/seaswirls/and plain PVC. I use silicone on the threads of the PVC threaded fittings to prevent leakage.

The biggest problem you'll find with the over & around tank manifold (or Calfo as you call it) is that you have to get the pressure right to get equal pressure out of the different outlets. Otherwise, as you get farther away from the pump outlet you will get less flow.

My 2 cents....take it for what it is...personal experience

 

[lebloom]

I've got a 75gal tank and have been interested in making someting like this. I have got a 20 gal glass tank just sitting around empty so would this be enough to do one of these? Just what else is needed? This would be new to me because I have just been using 4 powerheads along with a filter and a skimmer in my tank. I want to add some corals sometime soon if I can. Tank has been up for about 3 years.

 

[Kimo]

Any more input?

 

[lebloom]

Sure, would something like this work for my tank? Would I be better off with building something like this or staying with just what I have already? I want to convert to a reef but I don't have enough lighting right now.

 

[Kimo]

lebloom I am sure it would, as long as you have a big enough pump.

Check out this thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=520145

Most of your questions will be answered there.

I am looking for photos of setups like the one I described. If you have it, post it!

Thanks!

Jamie

 

[rudeanduncouth]

second the pump size. I screwed myself over with way too small of pump on mine. Mine is basically the same as you are planning except on a 125.

 

[Kimo]

rudeanduncouth -

Do you have, or could you get some photos? I'd really like to see how you pulled it off.

I tried the 1" PVC under the trim last night and it is not that prominent. It is much less of a problem than 1.5" would be.

When my AM dies, I'm going to get a hammerhead (most likely). Until then I am going to cap off a bunch of my outlets so I can get some decent flow.

Jamie

 

[rudeanduncouth]

You don't think a hammerhead will be enough flow for your CL? That is what I plan on using with mine. Keep in mind, mine isn't a closed loop it is just the manifold running from the sump. When I get a new pump I will make it a cl. Just isn't worth the time for it now. I also will probably redo the whole thing because it isn't that straight and even. It works and I could adjust if I felt the need but I plan to deal with it later. I was thinking of making it one closed loop with two ball valves so I control different sections better.

 

[Kimo]

Thanks for the pic, that explains a lot.

Do you have any photos of how it looks from the front?

I think a hammerhead would be enough flow, but with 12 or so outputs. I have an Ampmaster 3000 right now, so I don't think it can handle 12 outputs.

It might even be better to run two darts, and split the manifold into two loops.

I'm tight on power for my tank, so that is an issue. I just need to get rid of my current setup as it is not giving me very good flow at all.

Thanks so much for the input.

Jamie

 

[rudeanduncouth]

Not the best pic by any means. Maybe I can take a better one tonight. I just have this one on photo bucket right now. What do you mean tight on power? Do you keep blowing power strips? That is a problem I have had. I have an extension cord running from a different circuit, otherwise I would blow the actually breaker. Not to mention my house is kinda retarded and the top outlet on all the outlets in my living are ran off a switch. So if I accidentally flip the switch I would turn everything off.

 

[Krish]

Daniel...Looks like with the right pump, you will have great flow in there. It almost reminded me of Alberto's. I'm sure you've probably seen it, but if not scroll down on the link here

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5253

 

[rudeanduncouth]

damn, that is nice. I will just be happy when my diatom bloom clears. I am also lacking in the snail department so that doesn't help.

 

[Krish]

I will just be happy when my diatom bloom clears. I am also lacking in the snail department so that doesn't help.

Yeah...They suck a bit, but I'm glad I've passed that stage finally! Well, atleast I haven't seen anything to talk about within the last 3 weeks.

 

[Kimo]

Ok - moving right along, I got most of the supplies for the manifold.

I have, due to asthetic reasons, chosen to use 1" pipe for the manifold, reducing to 3/4" outlets. I purchased 1" -> 3/4" reducing tees, threaded for the manifold.

I chose to go with threaded because then I can use threaded plugs to plug up some of the outputs that I am not using. Otherwise, I do not know a non-permanent way to cap an output.

To go from the T into the tank, I am using a male adaptor, a small piece of pipe and then a 45 degree fitting for the nozzle. I will glue the pipe to the adapter but the 45 will just be friction fit onto the pipe so that it is adjustable.

Does this sound like a good plan, or do you think there will be too much pipe in the tank?

Thanks!

Jamie

 

[Kimo]

Any comments? BTT

 

[bc_slc]

sounds good. Take some pics as you assemble.

What are your plans for pipe size up to the manifold and are planning on running a complete loop for the manifold or a big "U"? Eitherway, I would run fewer outlets on the side furthest from the input to the manifold.

 

[Kimo]

I will use 1.5" up to the manifold and will run a complete loop.

I will be able to cap off some outputs, that way I have some flexibility.

I will take photos during assembly.

More input?

 

[Anthony Calfo]

Sorry for the delay in repy here, my friends... been crazy busy lately

Mat/bc slc was spot on on his take of what my take would be

Reducing to 1" will be a significant handicap. Sure... the velocity may seem better, but the total flow will be reduced (friction). Its a fair rule to never reduce the piping smaller than the pump output size. If anything, go bigger.

And indeed, I do prefer to keep the manifold hidden tight and tidy under the trim/braces. Its not visible at all when looking directly at the tank (for being behind the trim) and is far less obtrusive from other angles than most other water moving devices/pumps.

It is true that it will take some finesse to adjust water flow from all of these nozzles... but then again, you don't actually want or need identical flow from each nozzle. Depending on the rockscape... your flow needs (and corals' flow needs) vary across a range. With flared ends to the teed stems, you can finesse this nicely.

That said, apurpose of having the loop too (as opposed to a spray bar like tee or other non-loop pattern) is that the circuit boosts and somewhat equalizes the flow/pressure all around the loop. Tis a manifold! And if you feel the need to even the spread better... you place less tees closer to the tap on the loop than the furthest end of it.

But above all, please do not obsess about the exact amount of flow from each tee without considering what the actual flow needed (by the corals/dead spots) is by each tee. They always vary and should be. Thats not a handicap to the CLM indeed.

As for pump size... most folks do grossly underestimate what their tank needs (30-60X for most modern reef tanks with stony corals versus older soaft coral tank styles)... and most folks underestimate (literally... failed math on flow needed per outlet times X outlets) the size of the pump needed for their CLMs

I'm using a Hammerhead on a 120 CLM with about 12 outlets... and the flow is not overwhelming by any definition. FWIW

kindly, Anthony