Can I get these corals?

[roblou]

Sorry, just re-read your first post and see you upgraded to a 75g from a 29g. However, the above still applies

 

[badger126]

Ok so here's my parameters. Under my understanding they are all within normal range. I understand that I might still see a cycle in this bigger tank.
Temp 79 degrees
Sp.Grav 1.025
Nitrates ~0 (I need to use a better test to be sure which I will do later this afternoon)
Nitrites 0
Ammonias 0
Calcium 400-410
Alk Didn't test with my salifert test yet but a test strip indicated that it was in decent high ranges
Mg I don't have a test for it but I won't really need it till I get more corals will I?

The first night that I moved everything over I overfed a little bit just to push it and see whether I could see any ammonias during the first few days. So far they have been nonexistant. Vinny I agree with you that the majority of the good bacteria resides within the live rock/sand, but any filters used on a tank also contain large cultures due to the tremendous surface areas of filtration media. So I am HOPING that having all the live rock from the previous tank + water and filters this will reduce if not elimenate my cycle. Current stock in the 75 is:
2 false-percula clowns
1 blue green chromis
1 pj cardinal
1 pink anthias
1 tuxedo urchin
2 heads of hammer coral
Silver dollar sized piece of green star polyps
Clean up crew appropriate for a 29 gallon tank consisting of hermits, turbos, mexican turbos, ceriths, and nassarius snails

So the consensus is to wait and see where my water goes. If I wait a week and see no ammonias/nitrites and preferrably no nitrates am I safe to add 1 or 2 small things? Over what period of time does it take then to consider my water stable if the cycle is over?

 

[mcvicker]

I am going to add some comments regarding why more time creates a stabler tank, and is more suited for delicate creatures. When you first cycle the tank all you are creating is the bacteria necessary to support your tank. This is important as it removes ammonia, nitrite, etc... However, it is only one cog in the biological filter. You also need worms and pods to break down detritus. This helps your tank deal with added food and critters better. You also need time to build diversity in the population. If something varies your system will react better since it may only impact one portion of the population. I set up a tank and let it run for three years. I broke it down and took a break. I then set up another tank recently, and it has been up for about 9 months. I have already gotten burned, because bad habits I developed that were okay with a three year old tank do not work on a much younger tank. The system just isn't developed enough to cope with my mistakes yet. The last two reasons an older tank is more stable have little to do with the tank and apply more towards the owner. With time you understand exactly what your tanks need. You know approximately how much evaporation you get, how much calcium consumption, and alkalinity needs your tank has. You know how much food is required, what is too much and what is too little. You in sense calibrate to the tank so that your day to day feedings, additions, and maintenance cause the least amount of variation. The last main item is equipment/design issues. You may have completely thought out your design, however most tank "disasters" happen in the first few months. You cook the tank because the heater set up had a failure method you didn't foresee. It took a couple months for the opportunity to present itself, but eventually it did but it cost you some livestock. You overdose water because the fail-safe auto-top off you installed failed. There are inumberable little design flaws in most set-ups. It takes about 6 months for most people to flush these things out of their system.
I hope this helps explain some of the slow down comments everyone is saying and starts to explain how an older set up is better for delicate creatures. I am the same as you in that I need to know all the why's for doing things. Hopefully this helps explain some of them.
-chris

 

[badger126]

That helped a lot, thank you chris. I know it was hard to keep the detrius in my 29 gallon under control, but that was partly due to the fact that it was so stuffed with live rock that there were only a few places that I could squeeze a gravelvac. It was also difficult to create a good current to keep it suspended. The rock in the 75 gallon is much more convenient, I'll have to post up some pics this evening so you guys can give me suggestions. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

I think everyone said pretty much everything I would've said. Not sure if your "please don't bash me" comment was directed at me, but if so, there was no bashing intended. If me pointing out that keeping a coral alive for two weeks doesn't mean you have a stable tank is bashing... well... then I guess I bashed in your book.

My point was that sometimes it takes a while for corals to settle in and react to their environment. Two weeks isn't enough time. Shoot... two weeks isn't even enough time to really know what a coral looks like when it's happy! Unless you're really screwing up, it can take a coral a while to whither away. Now if you're talking two months, then maybe I'd say you're corals may be starting to settle in to their new homes.

If you're planning on adding fish to the tank, personally, I'd wait 6 months before adding corals. During that 6 months of adding fish, your biological filtration will be adjusting to the changing bioload. In addition, your coralline algae will be growing and spreading, which will throw your calcium/alkalinity balance a little curve ball. Six months gives you time to figure all that stuff out without having the additional stress of worrying about the $$$ in corals that you could lose by making a wrong move.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Here's another aspect that I just thought about when I was feeding the tank tonight...

In the first few months, I was experimenting with powerhead placement, and quantity of powerheads quite a bit. My flow patterns were constantly changing while I learned the pros/cons of each different variation. Trying to come up with a pattern that gave me some high flow areas, as well as low flow areas, but still kept dead spots from forming took a fair amount of time.

Certain corals like specific water flow types. Some want gentle flow, some more vigorous. If I would've had a tank full of corals as I tweaked the flow around, I either wouldn't have tweaked the flow around (which I needed to do), or I would've been constantly moving corals, or the corals would've withered and died since they were in the wrong flow patterns. Not having a tank full of corals allowed me to experiment with different patterns without worrying about who/what is was effecting.

I know "stability" is an impossible thing to really grasp when you haven't been there yet. Shoot... my tank has been up for 3-1/2 years now and I still have patches of diatoms show up from time to time, and I wonder "Hmmm... I haven't done anything different - why'd THAT show up?" And it's hard for us to explain because it's something that can't really be quantified. As the tank matures, and the tank inhabitants get bigger, it is constantly changing. I'd take a guess that it actually takes years for a tank to become truly "stable" - if it ever truly does. The handful of test kits we have at our disposal paint part of the picture, but there are so many things going on in our closed ecosystem that we don't and can't test for.

 

[badger126]

Thanks for the info kurt! Those are some things I hadn't thought of. You are right that it is hard to quantify stability, and that's why I'm trying to get as much info as I can. I am not planning on adding fish for a while, except for maybe switching out my false percs for another kind of clown and maybe adding a chromis or 2 to get a school going.
I checked my water again today and still no ammonias or nitrites, although my nitrates have gone up to ~5. I'm still hoping that this indicates that I won't see a cycle at this time, so I went to the guy's house that had the ad on craigslist. I was only intending on getting a couple of zoas but I ended up getting a couple small things :-S
Anyways, I got a nice rock with some zoas, a small favia with about 6 polyps, a birdsnest, and a couple of tiny frags of millies just to see how they'd do. Ended up only being $40 and I think I'll be able to stick with these for a while to see how things work out. Do you have any advice on powerhead placement Kurt? I'm having a little difficulty in deciding how the current should look. I'm gonna open up a thread with some pictures and I'll post the link to it here in a few.

 

[badger126]

Here's the link. If you have any suggestions that would be great.
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=519165#post519165

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Funny. Whoever mentioned that it appeared you had your mind made up from the beginning pretty much nailed it, eh?

Powerhead placement? Only recommendation would be to put them where you don't have dead spots, but yet gives you high flow and low flow areas to work with.

 

[GarageReefer]

First post .

I have been keeping sw since about 1963 and sps for about 5 years.
I'm not even close to totm but I can grow sps pretty well.
I have become friends over the last couple of years with my UPS guy from all the reef related stuff I've been buying for my new 180g after my 11 year old 120g started leaking.

Anyway, I have given him a lot of frags of coral that grows like weeds for me and he can't keep it alive yet.
I have been trying to get him going by selling him my old mh setup and stuff but no luck with sps for him so far. He can grow the mushrooms and stuff I give him but even the neon candycane that also grow like crazy for me he can't keep alive for more than a couple of months.
So, I think you will find that there are somethings that just take time and there is no other solution.

 

[1fishkeeper]

Welcome GarageReefer

 

[sglazne]

I see this is an older thread, but just read it. Badger, how about an update. how is your tank and the corals you bought doing?

 

[lvsuckerfish]

I would agree with the slowing down but being all small frags it would not be the first or the last time I added that many corals to my tank and alot bigger then a frag here and there. most on the list are hardy corals and most will live through anything. the sps and lps I would shy from at this point. and add the duncans frog spawn and monits and zoas with the montis plan on adding ca and alk and mag for dosing unless you do weekly water changes. then you will be ok! i also agree the 6 bulb fixture is more then enough for the system. lighting wise. indivdual or a solid reflector it is more then enough regardless. moving tanks fast from one month in a 29 to a 75 use had to add the extra water so there may be a small cycle what are your params including ammonia and nitrite and nitrate and phosphate?

 

[badger126]

Everything is doing good thanks for asking! I have since upgraded from the 75g to a 90 gal w/overflow. I made the change because my HOB overflow was too noisy. So currently I'm running a 90 gallon w/40 gal sump/refugium. If I remember correctly, that first jaunt to pick up corals I picked up a nice rock with a few different kinds of zoas, 2 different colors of milli, and a tubs purple polyp birdsnest. They were all really cheap (I spent less than $40) so I figured what the heck I'm still running with no nitrates, so lets try some sps. In retrospect it MAY not have been the best decision, but everything lived and is doing very well. The green milli has doubled in size and grown 3 new branches, the purple hasn't really grown. It's been working on slowly encrusting for the last few months(it kept getting knocked off), but I haven't been able to see any increase in height. The birdsnest has tripled in size, and the zoas grew so crazy that I've since cut that rock all up and am trying to sell the frags. Got a bunch of new corals now including a number of chalices, some blasto, and 10 or so other sps- monti caps, encrusting montis, acros, etc. and all are doing very well and showing good growth.

 

[sglazne]

Great to hear. Sure is hard to start slow when the hobby is so new and exciting. I know I made some poor decisions on early on, like adding 100 pounds of live rock, to my almost completely cycled tank. What I didn't know is I wanted cured rock, not live rock....so bam my water #'s were off the charts...only good thing is I hadn't added any fish yet. Took the live rock out, dumped my tank and started over while I cured the live rock in a seperate tub......Now i have a trusted LFS who checks my water, keeps me on track and won't sell me, what I want!! Sat down with her determined what I wanted to do and came up with a plan on who, what and when I could add. Frustrating, but now waiting is not so hard...guess because I have other things to look at and mess with.... Glad to hear you had good results!!! And your new 90 should give you plenty of room for your corals....for a while...ha