I have a 110 gal fish only tank right now. I have a porcupine puffer, a maroon clown, and a cuban hogfish. All seem healthy. I do 10% water changes every 5 - 7 days even though I only have 3 fish. I only use RODI water. My question is can ick just appear even though I havent added any fish? Only my puffer seems to have it on his fins. It really doesnt look exactly like ick however. Ick looks like little grains of salt. These seem much smaller and more "flat". Is is ick? Should I treat for ick? Can it be something else?
Can ick just happen?
- Thread starter Roly
- Start date
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james734
Well-known member
Not sure Roly, Can you possible get a pic of it. It could be ich, but with out pictures I'd hate to jump to conclusions.
The last fish introduced was my maroon clown that was about 3 months or so ago. I can't get a pic. The camera I have wont capture it. Maybe I could borrow one??? Is there any way that I could find out what it is? I just dont know what my next step should be. I would think that the first fish to get ick (if it is ick) would be the clown. But he and the hogfish show no signs of anything.
auqua man
Well-known member
I have had ick in my tank on and off for over a year and a half now. When I have a stressed fish it will appear. Then only the stressed fish will get it. Either the fish gets better or dies quickly, But the other fish in the tank are not infected. The ick will disappear for many months untill I have a stressed, sick or new fish. 8 months now with no sign of it. I think I will always have ick in my system. I have not had any big problems with it.
Reefergeorge
Well-known member
I read in another post that after 11 months without any signs that the tank is ich free. So if your at 8 I would try to keep the stress down.
If you have ick in your tank on and off then something always has to be infected. Ich has roughly a 6 week life cycle. The spots on the fish is only one stage of the cycle. Ich does not hibernate and then reappear. Something always has to host it for it to complete its life cycle. If there is no host in the tank it will die out in roughly 6 weeks (8 to be safe)
star rider
Active member
the theory is that the ich can only manifest itself(given the right habitat) for 11 months. in essence they belief is that it can only sustain it's reproductive cycle up to that 11 month period.(al least in thei one study)
the ich itself cycle takes as little as 4 weeks and as much as 8.
fish can become resistant to it and not show much sign. some fish are more resistant than others.
it does need a host as it will not survive the free swimming stage for more than a few days.
the ich itself cycle takes as little as 4 weeks and as much as 8.
fish can become resistant to it and not show much sign. some fish are more resistant than others.
it does need a host as it will not survive the free swimming stage for more than a few days.
DonW
R.I.P.
Ich can stay in your tank indefinatly as long as you have fish. You just may never notice it. The only way to be for sure is to get rid of your fish and buy those little plastic ones.
Don
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
Don, that is your opinion, Lee has a different opinion based on a study. I have no opinion currently, but have seen three tanks that appear to align with Lee's study; that Ich can die out with time if nothing new is added for 11 months.
Here is the link: http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28447&highlight=ich
Here is the link: http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28447&highlight=ich
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I'm with Don...in the past I have seen it spring up in my tanks outside the supposed 11 month window with no new additions of livestock.
MikeS
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
Was anything wet added during that 11 month window?
As in corals, live rock, anemone?
As in corals, live rock, anemone?
DonW
R.I.P.
Studies are subject to enterpritation and Lee is not going to give us a gaurantee. I chose my words carefully and the key word is "can" which happens to be the same word that Lee used. Neither one of said "will". Take it for what it is. There is no gaurentee.
Don
No, this was many years ago, long before I had a reef tank...these were FO tanks with no new additions. I remember being puzzled about ich outbreaks when nothing new had been added to the tank for over a year...
Reguarding the study...one has to remember that these types of observations can be fairly subjective...ie conditions in those tanks don't necessarily mirror conditions found in other tanks. Perhaps under a certain set of tank circumstances, ich can survive for longer periods of time....
MikeS
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
Don your statement that "Ich can stay in your tank indefinitely as long as you have fish"is an absolute. I have no opinion formed as yet but am hopeful that Lee is correct.
My question is more of a genetic one: Does MI require fresh genetic material added to the tank's gene pool to continue, or will it become extinct from mutation/exhaustion without introduction of new. Many bacteria and viruses exhibit this behavior. If all the fish become truly immune, not just resistant, it could die out. Additionally, there could be some enemy of MI that gets a foothold after time and gradually kills it off. I have friends who had MI peter out and attributed it to cleaner wrasses and cleaner shrimp which seems doubtful. Since petering out, new QTed at risk fish added to the untreated yet aged tank, never contracted ich.
Time and more study will tell.
My question is more of a genetic one: Does MI require fresh genetic material added to the tank's gene pool to continue, or will it become extinct from mutation/exhaustion without introduction of new. Many bacteria and viruses exhibit this behavior. If all the fish become truly immune, not just resistant, it could die out. Additionally, there could be some enemy of MI that gets a foothold after time and gradually kills it off. I have friends who had MI peter out and attributed it to cleaner wrasses and cleaner shrimp which seems doubtful. Since petering out, new QTed at risk fish added to the untreated yet aged tank, never contracted ich.
Time and more study will tell.
Again, it probably depends on the particular tank in question. I have heard theories (which I happen to believe) that state that while ich may be present in the tank, infection of livestock doesn't occur until the population of ich reaches a certain point, and tank/livestock conditions are favorable for infection. This is why things like UV sterilizers are effective in reducing the number of outbreaks, as they effectively lower the total ich population in the tank.
MikeS
DonW
R.I.P.
It wasnt meant to be an absolute since of course I wouldnt put my paycheck on it and I doubt Lee would either. FWIW there is a current study that will be released by U of W soon and will be much more fitting to this hobby.
Don
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
Great news on the study, thanks Don.
star rider
Active member
well gee shuckie darns..hyuk hyuk ya think?
as i said in theory..I never stated that as fact.
I actually believe that it can self perpetuate up to reason.
tho I do believe Lee's study may have some merit. Tho I am not sure of the time window. involved in Lee's study.
but if the fish can build a resistance to the parasite and if the parasite does not adapt like the fish and mutate to counter the fish..
well heck just about anything is possible. if could be a never ending cycle.
I'll leave this to those that have the big bucks to do the study..
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