Can you over-skim a tank?

[eww]

Since we were the lucky ones to walk away with the SWC Extreme Mini S skimmer from the PSAS BBQ we are just curious if a tank can be over-skimmed? Since we got home I checked the configuration of the sump. We need 10" + a little and of course we have 9 1/2" . Bummer. I am wondering if it is worth the work it will take to modify the baffle locations in my sump to fit it in there. Could this be too much skimmer for our 70 gal DT and 30 gal sump? I figure with all the LR and other stuff and the top room in the sump that we have between 70 & 80 gal of volume. I would love to set it up. It looks like one awesome piece of equipment. What is the everyone's input?

It was great to meet everyone today too.

 

[mal1099]

dont think theres a such thing as to much skimmer. In this hobby its better to be overrated then underrated And that cone skimmer would be worth adjusting your baffes in my opinion. I have a swc 200 extreme and these skimmers are just badass.

 

[ac7av]

Keep the skimmer
Keep the skimmer
And did I already say it
Keep the skimmer
It will serve you well in to the future even if you expand your system. I don’t believe you can over skim. The only side affect would be better clearer water. I don’t know, it kind of speaks for it self.
If you don’t like that one I have room for it. He He. I would try and work out some way to get it into your sump. I don’t know how yours is set up but I think it would be worth your time if its not imposable.
BTW SCW200 extreme in my house too.

 

[lvsuckerfish]

I will PM you a link on skimmer ratings over and under alot of skimmer guru's debating jon warner, luke, mojo, troylee, and few others it is alot of reading thats for sure. IMO opinion people that have systems to own and run different skimmers are the gurus not people that have small tanks and can read about other skimmers. thats not a guru that reading we all can do that.

 

[Skimmy]

exactly right lvsuckerfish... I personally have been installing and maintaining skimmers for over a decade and I still wouldnt consider myself a "guru"(perhaps a devotee)...you cant just read about skimmers and learn troubleshooting skills/proper tank ratings...and never take a manufacturers/salespersons word at face value....you must gain physical experience and do research.

you can definately overskim a tank... but will the mini s overskim a 70g???
well...
i usually start off with prescribing 600-700 lph of air injection for every 100g of display tank(deltec typically prescribes 300lph). the SWC mini S gets about 1200lph air injection, which would make it good for 200g sps quality water.
on a 70g with low bioload, the skimmer may have a foam head that fluctuates from being productive to not productive... but if you had a heavy bioload or feed heavily to accomodate fish and corals it would probably continue to be productive without waning... it all has to do with the amount of food you introduce, and the amount of waste produced by creatures, and other filtration present in the system.


and hmmm.... I wonder where that Mini S came from....lol
CONGA RATS for teh win eric!!!!!!

 

[lvsuckerfish]

well disagree with the overskimming but agree to the rest of what skimmy posted

after reading few long threads from what I gather on those debates a skimmer will only produce a head of foam when working as designed. now if there is little organics to be removed then the head of foam will lower itself in the neck to not product. a skimmer will never skim all the organics out of a tank. the tanks inhabitants need some organics to live.

Now that being said will the skimmer over skim I would say No a skimmer too large will just not work properly. you could have organics building up until there is enough to get the foam head pulling up through the neck it will product in the body or lower portion of the neck but will not make it to the collection cup. which would be a bad thing.

a skimmer that can not produce a foam head IMO is not over skimming.

Again I am no pro, guru or as put above a devotee....

I plug and Play lol thats all but this is from what i read on other sites.

 

[Skimmy]

to me overskimming defines a condition in which the particular inhabitants of an individual system are basically denied the amount of nutrients they require in order to thrive and be healthy...
you definately can overskim an aquarium... but granted were talking like...putting a bk w/askoll on a 55g. tank... irreguardless weather the foam head is constant or not, the skimmer will remove all available nutrients .

also...it is worth mentioning that SPS systems thrive on a condition of of what other corals would consider overskimming, and that the obvious goal of most sps keepers is to overskim....

for me personally i like to overskim and then make up for it with excess feedings and dosing, that way i have even more control over the nutrients.

 

[MrGone]

I used to think you could but now I'm right in line with what lvsuckerfish says, I have an CNC 300A on my tank (a 150g and 55g on a shared sump) and it has trouble producing enough foam to get up into the neck for half the day but for a few hours a day it has enough to produce a pretty dark tea that smells worse than anything my old euro-reefs could ever produce. The difficult part was dialing it in, a few times I would come home to it overflowing but now it is perfect. I think if I had a 300-400 gallon tank on it it would produce a more consistent foam head but oh well, the Askolls sure pump out a lot of air!

 

[lvsuckerfish]

that makes no sense if the foam head is not constant then how can you pull organics from the water.

this would mean once the organics levels (per say) got high enough to build the foam head up then it would pull out all organics? I would say no now you would be dealing with slug against the body and Neck. and it would make it's way back into the water column.

if you have a low foam head the organics will stay in the body of the skimmer and eventually make its way back to the water column as it is not being collected in the cup. And yes some will make it on the inner walls of the lower protion of the skimmer neck and upper portion of the body just above the inner body water line. as there I cannot see over skimming if the skimmer is not pulling but whats avail. when the skimmer is functioning properly.

for the skimmer Eric has I would probly set it on a timer to run a few hours at a time throughout the day. but I have a better Idea for Eric upgrade to a bigger system lol build the system to match the skimmer lmao.

 

[Skimmy]

well, i would personally not agree with your statement.
the nutrients do not "just go back into the tank" if your skimmer is so oversized that the foam head isnt constant.
what happens is the nutrients are taken out so quicky that there isnt enough to keep the foam head stable...so the skimmer will remove everything, then the head collapses...it's pretty simple to figure out...no big mysteries here.
just look in the cup/on the neck.
and AGAIN...it's a scenario dependant upon individual stocking, feeding, and filtration..so to make a blanket statement that you cant overskim isnt considering the diversity of different stocking and filtration set ups.

that makes no sense if the foam head is not constant then how can you pull organics from the water.

this would mean once the organics levels (per say) got high enough to build the foam head up then it would pull out all organics? I would say no now you would be dealing with slug against the body and Neck. and it would make it's way back into the water column.

if you have a low foam head the organics will stay in the body of the skimmer and eventually make its way back to the water column as it is not being collected in the cup. And yes some will make it on the inner walls of the lower protion of the skimmer neck and upper portion of the body just above the inner body water line. as there I cannot see over skimming if the skimmer is not pulling but whats avail. when the skimmer is functioning properly.

for the skimmer Eric has I would probly set it on a timer to run a few hours at a time throughout the day. but I have a better Idea for Eric upgrade to a bigger system lol build the system to match the skimmer lmao.

 

[Skimmy]

case in point...this is exactly what im talking about...
the skimmer is only productive for a few hours a day... but in those few hours it produces some insane nog...
also, note how before it was set at the apropriate level the user comes home to it overflowing when trying to acheive a level that provides a normal foam head.
he had to set it where it doesnt typically have a full foam head, then it is only productive for a few hours. which could also be changed by feeding/stocking more.
no one is really right or wrong here...all of our experiences could be considered anecdotal, really...
it's when you start researching 1000's of experiences and have years of personal experience that you start to get a big picture though...

I used to think you could but now I'm right in line with what lvsuckerfish says, I have an CNC 300A on my tank (a 150g and 55g on a shared sump) and it has trouble producing enough foam to get up into the neck for half the day but for a few hours a day it has enough to produce a pretty dark tea that smells worse than anything my old euro-reefs could ever produce. The difficult part was dialing it in, a few times I would come home to it overflowing but now it is perfect. I think if I had a 300-400 gallon tank on it it would produce a more consistent foam head but oh well, the Askolls sure pump out a lot of air!

 

[Shane and John]

Well after reading thru this Thread...I dont think you got an answer yet Eric....If it were me,I would run the skimmer..I would take the time to re-work my sump and get this piece of equiptment to work....The Skimmer is such an important pc that the extra work on the sump it would take to make it work is Wayyy worth it..This skimmer would Rock you tank....I was hoping to win it to run on my 120...and when I can fund it,I will be buying this same skimmer..However,if you decide to NOT run it,give me a shout and maybe we can work something out...But again...if it were me..I would run it....

 

[Herefishyfishy]

"Can you over-skim a tank?"

No

 

[ac7av]

In skimerwhisperers posts are as close to common sense as you can get with skimming IMO. I agree totally but even though he says you can over skim, I think every one would agree that over skimming is good so that you can over feed to make sure all your critters in a mixed tank get what they need. Its easer to control the system over skimming then under skimming or a skimmer that can just barely keep up.

I have what most would consider an insanely over stocked tank. I run a SWC200 extreme and I see from hour to hour a deferent height to the head of foam in neck. At some times its not even half way up the neck and other times it’s a continuous pouring into the cup of junk. Like skimmy said don’t over adjust the thing when you start using it or it will just flood the cup. Start out with the level low in the neck and work your way up after a few days to find that sweet spot and then just leave it alone. Just because it’s not set at any one moment doesn’t mean anything on the overall average throughout the day that you get in your collection cup.

 

[NaTe R]

In skimerwhisperers posts are as close to common sense as you can get with skimming IMO. I agree totally but even though he says you can over skim, I think every one would agree that over skimming is good so that you can over feed to make sure all your critters in a mixed tank get what they need. Its easer to control the system over skimming then under skimming or a skimmer that can just barely keep up.

+1 well said. must feed more thats the key over skimmed tank can lead to problems if you are not over feeding. Feed lots and often.

 

[Shane and John]

Agreed.....Marks post was right on point..I think Eric was more looking for advise on whether to invest the time to keep the skimmer he won or if it would be Total Overkill...I think everyone in his position would do what it takes to keep and run that skimmer..I know I sure would...specially at the price that he Paid..lol..

 

[lvsuckerfish]

so over skimming will pull 100% of the organics out of the water column, is what I believe you are saying? All other equipment aside. no 2 systems are the same. From people that have done the research and stated only 30% of the nutrients (organics) can be pulled from a system how can you over skim.... if there is build up like I and you both stated in the body and neck of a skimmer then you are not pulling anything out and when the head does build back up the muck will makes its way back into the water(not all of it but some will make it's way back out of the body. there for over skimming is not possible.

common sense question for all..... if you have no head of foam is that skimming? if so please explain that to me lol....

my answer is if you have NO head of foam your skimmer is not functioning like it is supposed to, now you have an over rated skimmer.

Now having an over rated skimmer would be along the lines with out the foam head etc. and you still would not over skim with an over rated skimmer as you are not pulling anything out of the water. even if it is in the body or neck.......

 

[lvsuckerfish]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature

 

[eww]

Wow, that sparked a conversation or two I'm glad everyone is willing to help out. I think what I am reading is I should do the work to use the new skimmer, especially with what we paid for it and that in doing so I should up our feeding frequency and amount to make sure we keep the nutrients in the water column. I will have to watch the bubble level and adjust it for when a spike hits the bio load a few times a day so it pulls stuff at that time but not necessarily all day/night. If for some reason it doesn't work out I can always put the RS100 back in since there will only be a little more room after the mods to the sump and I'm sure I could get someone to take it off our hands. Please correct me if I am way off base. We are doing a mixed reef set up with softies, LPS and SPS and fish among other things.

Thanks again everyone and keep it going. This is really interesting reading for me.

 

[lvsuckerfish]

I do say use it. it will work you can feed more or put it on a timer. I personally would place it on a timer more food can also mean more issues.... algea phos and nitrates ect....