CB Butterfly infection?

[dragoneggs]

Lee,

I have had a CB Butterfly for about a month... was eating frozen carnivorous, mysis, and picking at the copapods. Seemed very happy adjusted to tankmates, etc. Then I notice yesterday he was nestling up to the cleaner shrimp, laying sideways, and nudging the cleaner to get to work.

Finally, the cleaner did start to pick at him and he seemed content.

Today the CB did not participate in the morning feeding, was hanging low and mostly out of sight. I watched him thoughout the day and noticed the 'infection' had gotten worse. Didn't eat in the afternoon. By nighttime, he was dead!

Please take a look at these two photos... one day apart, and he was fine the day before. The only significant activity was a regular waterchange and an Alk increaser but less than 1 dKH due to soft replacement RO/DI water. Any thoughts you could share? I am very saddened because he was eating, picking on the rocks, and a bit of aiptasia.

 

[leebca]

This condition is not that uncommon in the ornamental marine Butterflyfishes and thar recent additions to captive life. They are very sensitive to water quality during acclimation. It is essentially a kind of systemic infection, like or exactly the same as septicemia (sp?). It comes on from a water quality problem.

It is often a spike in ammonia, nitrites or a poison has entered the water. It can in fact be one or more of quite a number of problems. The only way to have known for sure was to check the water for ammonia and nitrites twice daily to rule them out (and few hobbyists do this). It could be that something died in the tank you weren't aware of that didn't bother the other inhabitants. It could be a skimmer that wasn't maintained; a chemical filter that expired; or a lapse in maintenance. Like I wrote. . .a lot of possibilities, but all a matter of water quality.

 

[dragoneggs]

Thank for the reply. I do regular water changes, watch my params... Not twice a day, maintain my skimmer. What I am having a hard time with is how fast the spot developed and he died! Really about 24 to 36 hours. He was literally eating out of my hand the day before! Could it have been an injury from a pistol shrimp? Something is taking out my small Chromis at night. No remains have been found. I have more than 200 gallons in the system with a very light billows but maybe these deaths are to blame? I will check ammonia again but it has been near zero along with my nitrates for months.

 

[leebca]

That is not an injury. From onset to death, the time can be anywhere from a few hours to a few days for septimcemia. It's a systemic infection and when it displays like this, it is near the end of life of the fish.

 

[dragoneggs]

Sorry, my last post had an embarrassing typo. My dang ipad did an auto correction of light 'bioload' to light 'billows'.

The root cause may have been the dissappearance of 5 chromis over about a 10 day span that were recently introduced. Not sure what happened but maybe they attacked by shrimp at night while sleeping in the rocks? Did a waterchange and will do another. All other fish, coral are happy. The CB must be a sensitive fish. Never had a fish go so fast! Thanks again for your help. I think the lesson here is when a couple fish dissappear, start doing waterchanges immediately!

 

[leebca]

The true disappearance of one or more fishes is quite a big concern. I write true here to mean that the fish was not found anywhere outside the system.

It really isn't water changes as much as it is find that fish's remains and get it out of the tank. :biggrin1:

 

[dragoneggs]

Seriously, I have looked. These were relatively small Chromis and my tank is 200+ gal system with strong skimmer, floss filteration cleaned regularly, carbon intermittantly. I have very large only live rock mostly 20lbs plus or minus 5lb of very porous. Had Chromis before in a different tank with same rock and the Chromis would back in to crevises that allowed them to go deep in the rock. Every other fish, not the many, but enough over the years, I have been able to retrieve. These however all dissappeared... no trace, no remains. Obviously, this concerns me but I know what is in this tank as the rock was inactive for two years and pretty 'clean'. The only culprits unless something grew from an egg or baby on a frag. OR... my pair of pistol shrimp (not large) or small peppermint shrimp. Believe me, it is not for the lack of looking or caring! A couple months ago I had to pull all of my rock out to catch a tang that needed treatment. A lot of fun when you are wrestling elbow deep in a mixing reef tank trying to be careful!

 

[NC2WA]

Mark,

by pulling all the rock out, you may have disturbed the sand enough to cause a small ammonia spike..

I had to pull half of my rock out to catch a fairy wrasse and diamond goby..fast little suckers...anyway, I believed I cause a small spike in my tank as I'm noticted red algae on my sandbed..i never have red algae, so something think about.

thankfully, my tank is fishless until feb 24th.

 

[dragoneggs]

Mark,

by pulling all the rock out, you may have disturbed the sand enough to cause a small ammonia spike..

I had to pull half of my rock out to catch a fairy wrasse and diamond goby..fast little suckers...anyway, I believed I cause a small spike in my tank as I'm noticted red algae on my sandbed..i never have red algae, so something think about.

thankfully, my tank is fishless until feb 24th.

This CB went in after the rock pull so I think I was clear there... ammonia tests never revealed much on the scale. I have been following your celibacy until the end of next month and might be with you if I have more problems. Luckily my picasso's, gobi, and leopard wrasse seem to be steady... but then again I thought my others were fine until very quick deaths or dissappearances happened. Anyways, no fish for me for a bit.... I think... If I have to... I guess.

 

[leebca]

Mark,

Don't misunderstand my reply. I did not mean in anyway that you weren't caring or didn't care. I'm sure you looked for the lost fish. I have been in the same scenario as yourself.

I just didn't want others reading the thread to think that water changes were the solution. Actually, in such a case, where you believe the clean up crew cannot dispose of the remains quickly, then additional chemical filtration and top notch skimmer work is important until the bacteria can finish their job.

 

[dragoneggs]

Oh no worries Lee! I didn't take it that way at all. I really appreciate your replies and advice. It just seems odd when I do have a 'sufficient' cleaner crew, top notch sump with filtration and an awesome Vertex Alpha Cone Skimmer that is amazing. This is why I was seeking your advice because I am not able to pinpoint water quality as the issue. My fish problems have truly been a mystery.

 

[leebca]

Have you read through this post and thread? http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/what-water-quality-27575/

It may contain something you weren't aware of or didn't know.