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i hear ya charlie, and i even agree. but i think the world would do much better with out people everywhere always doing that. its like this with everything.

come home with a new fridge, and someone somewhere will have something to say about that.

i dont even wanna get on the car thing but i know this all way to well.

thank you for the info tho guys.

u guys are still a great source of quick info. (even the constint negativety)
 
I think your missing the point for more than one reason, not only didn't you know what your putting in your tank, you just toss them in, no QT then brag on your procedures of taking unnecessary risk, the whole process isn't done right, this isn't good practice by far. If you want to enjoy this site as a reefing organization & reefing family then have the thought to be aware that others may see this & not know if this is the proper way of doing things or not. I hope you get it, if not we can take this thread & discussions elsewhere!
 
point excepted. done.

since this is a non light loveing sps food will be nessasary.

where do you get frenzy stuff? whats the damage on that?
 
hear ya charlie, and i even agree. but i think the world would do much better with out people everywhere always doing that. its like this with everything.

come home with a new fridge, and someone somewhere will have something to say about that.

i dont even wanna get on the car thing but i know this all way to well.

thank you for the info tho guys.

u guys are still a great source of quick info. (even the constint negativety


Jon...No matter where you go in life, you will experience it. That's just the way things are...If everyone agreed, then the world would be boring I guess. :rolleyes: I understand where you are coming from saying if it was in the LFS in their reef tank, free, it must be fine, etc but then again like the others said, you may be getting something that can screw up your tank and your LFS may not even know. I guess too, everyone is looking out for the newbies as well...They see you just toss something in without knowing anything about it, and may think it is fine and go out and buy aptasia thinking they just got an anemone for their clowns to host:eek:

It's all good man...Enjoy the hobby. Just research a little first before you end up with a problem in your tank that may take starting over to cure...Just a thought man. I'd hate to see one of your tank's crash because I know how enthusiastic you are about the hobby!. I mean sometimes you get so excited about the hobby, it's like you are on some crazy sugar :p
 
They die from lack of their natural foods. Micro-planktons. Used to be tons of it imported from the keys. Back in the days of "Dwarf Seahorse tanks" in a goldfish bowl. Was really cheap. Pinks, Purples, fans, stems, all kinds. Very few left alive in months to a year. I had some come in on rocks back in the 80s. Lived a bit longer, almost 6 months. If you don't live in the Caribbean, ignore it. OMHO
 
so then the question (and hopefully able to get a strait answer)

what do i feed them? can i target feed them?
 
Well I wholly agree that it is ideal to research a piece before buying it, both for the safety of the speciman as well as your pocketbook. There's also those exceptional cases where a piece just isn't really viable to keep in captivity but the industry keeps importing them. Those are the things we really need to get the word out on because if we could inform everyone they would stop shipping them. Anyways I can relate to where this guy is coming from, because althougth there a numerous reef LFS in my area there is also a lot of rich people and you have zero oppurtunity to do research before buying. Everyone knows what days shipments come in where. At the nicest LFS they almost alwasy get their coral in on Wendsday afternoon. Their will be 20-50 people standing around for them to unbox stuff and half of the stock (anything good) will be gone either immediately or by noon the next day. Some types actually have a waiting list!! I talk to this particular dealer a lot a he tells me "The only thing that limits my sales is how much I can get my wholesaler to ship".
On this same note prices in my area have gone up about 50% across the board on all corals in the last 2 years or so. Some pieces are going for double. Has anyone else seen increases like this in their area??
One of the 4 shops near me is on the border between the nice suburbs and a "less desirable" suburb and this guy had outragous prices. I mentioned it to him and he said " I know but the drug dealers from X come in here and they don't know what is what any pay whatever so there is no reason to lower my prices. I understand why you go elsewhere." I understand business so I hear what he's saying.
Anyways the prices are so crazy that I looked into starting a shop myself. Did a LOT of looking on the internet for coral wholesalers and found about 10 I received the same response from all of them. "We have more customers than we can currently handle. Please get back to us in the future or we can put you on our waiting list." Live rock is easy enought to get dirt cheap but no coral. I guess its at the point that if you can get wholesale prices on this stuff its just money in the bank? I am shopping for a house this spring and am looking for something with a greenhouse so that I can start a full scale growing operation.
 
so then the question (and hopefully able to get a strait answer)

what do i feed them? can i target feed them?

I'm not an expert on these in particular but you could use phyo-plankton, it should help them some. In an older established tank they should get some food & do a little better also.
 
Please read these threads in regards to azooxanthellate gorgonian feeding:

This one was already linked, so read through it if you haven't. It will answer your question on feedings.....and has really good information from Anthony - Gorgonian Pruchasing Question

Rotifers and Gorgonian Care

how the hell do you pay for this, when i didnt pay.

Im confused, i dont mean to sound rud or anything but you guys really gotta think out side the box.

just cause i picked something with out knowin its scintific name its in's and out's what it crap smells like doesnt make that a bad choice. Keep in mine Im busting my azz welding buildings fixing cars that people constintly "do stuff like this knowing better" and others have to deal with it.

Let me first explain that people seem to be posting very strong feelings with good reasons. We are discussing living organisms, not a car or something that isn't alive, so there are strong feelings about being conscientious. These organisms were taken from the ocean and put into our care, so we owe it to them to be responsible about our purchases. We should try and know what the organisms needs are the best we can prior to purchase. If we don't take the time to research, we are putting that particular organism at risk, as well as other livestock. For example, a Sea Apple is very beautiful. It is sitting at the store for a long time, and you've been eyeing it for weeks.....no one is buying it and it is really really cheap. You may buy it, bring it home not knowing anything about it, and boom.....something happens to it in your tank and EVERYTHING dies....fish and all. You ask about it, and find out that they are very poisonous when stressed. Researching before buying is not only for your own benefit, but for those in your care. Being a conscientious aquarist is something we can do to be responsible reefkeepers. Providing the best environment for what we have, and knowing when to pass on things we can't take care of makes us conscientious. It is our responsibility to show restraint for doomed species, so they will stop being imported.

Well I wholly agree that it is ideal to research a piece before buying it, both for the safety of the speciman as well as your pocketbook. There's also those exceptional cases where a piece just isn't really viable to keep in captivity but the industry keeps importing them. Those are the things we really need to get the word out on because if we could inform everyone they would stop shipping them.

I completely agree with this.


Here is a quote from Anthony Calfo that says it pretty well in regards to azooxthellate gorgonians:

Anthony Calfo said:
The worst thing anyone could do here is "save" this coral by buying it. It will still die in your tank most likely (much) sooner rather than later... and it will only spur the dealer to order another. Worse... perhaps more than one collected will have to die in transit to successfully import a healthy replacement.

Even if the gorg you have in your tank was free, it is still promoting the store to bring more in. Now that you have it, I'm glad you are taking the time to find out how to care for it properly (as opposed to wondering why it died later on). Read the links I posted. Try not to take the criticisms posted previously too harshly. It isn't anything personal, but merely conscientious hobbyists trying to help you understand the responsibility we take on as aquarists. Please take what has been posted into consideration the next time you are at the fish store. The beautiful piece that has caught your eye may still be there after you go home and research it. Ask the store what it is. YOU do your research, don't count on the store to tell you all of its needs, and whether or not your system can support it. You are ultimately the one responsible for its care, so by researching you can determine if your set-up is right. Perhaps the store will allow you to put a deposit on an item, so you can go home and check it out. If it is sold when you come back (if they won't take a deposit), then perhapds they can get another one in, or call you when another one is shipped.

Hope this helps clear some things up :)
 
so then the question (and hopefully able to get a strait answer)

what do i feed them? can i target feed them?

Well this is the problem isn't it... As far as I know even expert biologists in labs are not sure of the nutritional requirements of these specimens. In time we'll probably know but I don't think we're there yet.

By all means, if you have success be sure to post back the details.
 
not only that but she has a brain that is only 2o years old...so she's very smart

Hummmm... that mean you're trying to tell me she has only had her brain for 20 years??? *evil grin*

I am always impressed with the information Nikki gives us... awesome links of information every time we hear from her!!! I know, even though I haven't usually responded to her, I tend to follow the information she gives us... and found it very helpful!!!

THANKS NIKKI!!!!!! :D
 
i am going to have to agree with everyone on this one....i always do stuff wrong(a big list), but i listen to these guys because i know how knowledgeable they are.

i think that it is kind of the point of the site:confused: ..JMO

sorry man..hope you can find some way to get it to live:rolleyes:
 
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Hummmm... that mean you're trying to tell me she has only had her brain for 20 years??? *evil grin*

I am always impressed with the information Nikki gives us... awesome links of information every time we hear from her!!! I know, even though I haven't usually responded to her, I tend to follow the information she gives us... and found it very helpful!!!

THANKS NIKKI!!!!!! :D

Thanks Ed! I'm glad to know information I provide is helpful....that's my goal, as well as learning from others. And WOW, this site has taught me tons!! We have the best membership around.

ROFL on the 20 year old brain. Gaby is referring to my "Brain Age" from that crazy Nintendo DS game. lolol.
 
I had some red gorgonian in my 90 gal reef once....( I got the whole set up for free and it was included...) I never really had trouble with mine except that everywhere I put it, somehow it would always get knocked loose....and eventually that was the only downfall I had...it never really died even some of the branches that broke off wold still be alive in the rock, and substrate.... as far as feeding it, I would just use phyto, and zoo plankton and hope for the best. I also agree with the whole reasearch thing, but sometimes we get stubborn and make dumb decisions because we see something we like...Lord knows I have. You just learn the hard way........but the advantage here is that you can usually find someone else that has already done that.
 

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