clumpy brown stuff

[cliffscorals]

Hi Everyone,

I have a small 50 gal reef aquarium with about 6 LPS, a few clowns, a tang, and a dottyback. Everything is going well with the exception of some clumpy brown stuff that forms on top of my gravel. I think that it is cyano bacteria rather than algae because I've seen similar stuff in my fresh water tanks but it was green (thin film covering rocks and gravel). The brown film traps large bubbles underneath it and is easy to break up but it keeps coming back.

My tank is well established - it has been up and running for 1.5 years. I am hesitant to get anything too big to sift thru the gravel (i.e. serpent or brittle star) because many of my LPS (hammer, frogspawn, torch, galaxy) are placed on top of the gravel rather than on the live rock. I would not like to have any critters blunder into them. At one time I had a large number of snails (cerith and nassarius) but a couple of blue-legged hermits did most of them in.

What is this brown stuff? How do I control it?

Thanks,
Cliff

 

[Curtswearing]

Welcome!!!!

It sounds like Dinoflagellates. Here's a good thread.

 

[Krish]

Welcome to RF Cliff! I'm sorry your first post had be a little problem you are experiencing with your tank. Nevertheless, it's good to have you here. I think Curtswearing is helping you out just fine...Good luck in getting rid of it.

 

[cliffscorals]

remedies?

Thanks for the link to the thread on dinoflagellates. It definitely is bioluminescent and it is the brown stuff rather than the red kind. From that thread the remedies were

1) bump up pH by dripping Kalk at a higher rate
2) reduce photoperiod after turning off lights for a couple of days
3) limit feeding to reduce phosphates

Any comments on the usefulness of these remedies from others that may have had dinoflagellates?

Thanks,
Cliff

 

[Krish]

When I had the same problem in my old setup, the light trick worked a bit. I noticed that when I turned on the lights in the morning there wasn't much (dinoflaellates) on the substrate at all and always thought it was gone until I got home after the lights had been on all day and saw that it was all back. I cut the lights for a few days and siphoned off what I could from the substrate which cut it down quite a bit. I still had some, but not like what I had before. I'm sure it was do to a lot of other reasons other than the light though (like not using ro/di water and no form of phosphate remover). I eventually got rid of it all after adding my phosban reactor and doing a 100% water change switching over to ro/di water...I had other problems too, like crazy hair algae etc. why I did the big water change. Nothing you'd need to do to get rid of them (LOL) Good luck and I'm sure you'll get it sorted out.

 

[cliffscorals]

Trying light reduction and phosphate control

I am trying the light reduction (off one day and then reduce photoperiod). I also bought the 2 little fish phosban reactor. Some seemed to think that this helped against dinos. I will report back, when I find out what works.

Cliff

 

[dnjan]

None of those things worked for me. What ended up helping was vacuuming my sand bed (I did about a quarter of it each week for four weeks) along with agressive carbon use. I had about 3 cups of carbon in a power filter that would be exhausted in under two days. Took two of those big (gallon-size) containers of Black Diamond carbon total.

Do you vacuum your gravel at all? If so, How often, and are you able to get all of it? Someplace, you have a detritus accumulation that is feeding the dinos.

 

[NaH2O]

Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!!

What are your water parameters like? Are you skimming?

 

[cliffscorals]

carbon and vacuuming

None of those things worked for me. What ended up helping was vacuuming my sand bed (I did about a quarter of it each week for four weeks) along with agressive carbon use. I had about 3 cups of carbon in a power filter that would be exhausted in under two days. Took two of those big (gallon-size) containers of Black Diamond carbon total.

I haven't used carbon very often, so I will give it a try. How did you know that your 3 cups of carbon were exhausted after only 2 days?

Do you vacuum your gravel at all? If so, How often, and are you able to get all of it? Someplace, you have a detritus accumulation that is feeding the dinos.

I haven't used carbon very often, so I will give it a try. How did you know that your 3 cups of carbon were exhausted after only 2 days?

I have not vacuumed my gravel that much because I seem to suck up too much sand/gravel along with the waste.

 

[dnjan]

Salifert sells a test kit for carbon. Basically a test vial and a bottle of dye. Put water in, add some used carbon, and add a couple of drops if the die. Gently mix, and if the carbon absorbs the dye it is still good.

There are siphon tubes made for gravel. It is a plastic pipe about 1" diameter and 8" long, connected to a normal 1/2" diam. siphon tube. The larger diameter pipe allows for lower-velocity water flow during siphoning, which prevents the gravel from being sucked-up and removed. You will be amazed at how much crud is there between the gravel paritcles.

 

[cliffscorals]

water parameters

Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!!

What are your water parameters like? Are you skimming?

I am not big on test kits. I have a pH and temp monitors (digital readout). I use RO/DI water and do frequent water changes (10-20 percent a week). I use Kalk in my makeup water, I have the Aqua C Remora hang on Protein skimmer, and a hang on the back mechanical filter. My LPS are all thriving. If you read the thread on dino's above, poor water quality doesn't seem to be the cause, although I do need to vacuum more thoroughly.

 

[dnjan]

You may want to get a test kit for alk. My experience has been that when I get a bad dino outbreak, my alkalinity drops. I believe it is because of the accumulation of organics in the water column, combined with the production of organic acids as an intermediate step in the breakdown of the aforementioned organics.

Since it sounds like you are more into electronics than test kits, you may want to get an ORP meter. Since it can be a pain to keep the probe calibrated, I hesitate to give a value to shoot for. However, by watching changes in your ORP readings, you will be able to see if things are getting better or worse. A dropping ORP value means that the organics are winning. When it starts rising again, you know things are starting to improve.

If you get really desperate with the dinos (and they start to overwhelm some of your corals), you can pick up a bottle of Kent's PolyOx. Follow the directions. It is about a two-week process.

 

[Krish]

Cliffcorals, I was just wondering what you using for filtration in your tank? Also, what type of lighting are you using and how long has it been since you've changed your bulbs?

 

[cliffscorals]

Cliffcorals, I was just wondering what you using for filtration in your tank? Also, what type of lighting are you using and how long has it been since you've changed your bulbs?

Aquarium: 50 gal
Filtration:Aqua Clear 50 (2 sponges for mechanical)
Protein Skimmer: Aqua C Remora
Water Movement: 2 Powerheads w rotating deflector (bioflo)
Light: 3 96 watt Power Compacts
Refuge: CPR hang on the back (with deep sand bed)
RO/DI water
Instant Ocean
drip Kalk

Corals: Euphyllia (2 hammers, 2 frogspawns, 2 torches), Galaxy
Fish: 3 clowns, 1 tang
snails, urchin

The tank has been running for about 2 years - over which I have added 2-3 corals a year.

I am slowly moving up to a 120gal. I have built the stand frame and plan to use a 55 gal sump with a 29 gal refuge.

 

[Krish]

I know you said you're not big on tests, but have you done any tests for nitrates and phosphates. You said you are using aquaclears with sponges for mechanical filtration. How often do you change them? With anything like sponges, filter floss etc, it is reccommended that you change/clean them every 3 days atleast. You get stuff trapped in there that can start to breakdown and decrease your water quality. Also, if you are changing 10-20% of your water a week and not vacuuming the substrate, then you really aren't helping much if ditritus/wastes etc are caught up in the substrate and just sitting there and rotting. The reason I asked about your lighting was because you said the system was set up for 1.5 years. I was just wondering if during this time you changed any of your bulbs? With lighting, it is reccomended that you change the bulbs atleast every 8 months to a year or so. The reason why, is bulbs loose their spectrum over time which is said to be one of the causes of an algae break out. Just a few points I wanted to point out. Hope it helps.