Confussed - So much to learn, where to start

[Lil_MovieStar]

I have turned a 50 gal tank into a salt water tank, I currently have approx 65lbs of live rock in it,and a couple of fish. I have a canister filter system, and a hanger over skimmer, a couple of wake makers. I bought a ultra light with the blue night lights on it at the Fish Store. Before I finished setting up my tank, the fish store went out of business. I'm not happy with the tank and am thinking about buying a complete set-up and moving the live rock and fish into a new tank. Any advise?

I think I have gotten in over my head.
:help:
I have always wanted a Salt Water tank, but I really don't know what I am doing.​

 

[WABlonde]

What is it that you don't like about your current tank? What type of livestock do you currently have and what are your future goals?

 

[NWDiver]

I think the best place to start is to figure out what you want to keep in the tank. This will help you plan and buy the equipment you need to keep that livestock happy and healthy.
What were you looking to keep? Fish only? Coral? What kind of coral? Once we have an idea of what you are looking to do, we can make some suggestions that will help you be sucessful.

-Todd

 

[Krish]

Welcome to RF!! :welcome: You are in the right place so ask whatever questions you have. The members here are really friendly and will point you in the right direction. As suggested already, give us a bit more info on what your plans are so we can know which direction to point you in.

On a side note, I noticed you accidentally started an identical thread so i deleted it for you and moved this one in the new to reefkeeping section where you'd get the right kind of attention.

 

[Lil_MovieStar]

I would like Fish & some anemones & soft coral in the tank, I haven't tried any corals yet because the few things that I have tried other than fish I have killed, such as anemones, and another thing I have forgotten the name, but they looked liked fingers opening & closing all the time. I'm not real good w/ all the names yet, but I love the mushrooms, and the anemone the most. I'm not real sure what kind of coral, because I know you have to research what goes with what.
My tank has been running for almost 2 years. I keep the water changed, I do a 20% water change every other Wk.

I currently have 1 clown fish, 2 blue tangs, 1 red fire shirpm, and a flat crab and some snails and some hitch hicker star fish that were on the live rock that we bought.

What I don't like about my current tank- the tank sits on a table, it's not in a cabnit, so you can see the canister filter on the floor and all the wiring.
I also don't like the skimmer that I bought, I can never get it set to work right, it either won't skim at all, or it fills up so fast that I'm not sure it's working right or not.

Thanks so much for your help,
Donna

 

[Krish]

A few more questions...What's in your canister filter because depending on how it is used, it can actually cause more harm than good which is why the majority of people don't use them for saltwater setups. Typically the canister won't add any extra biological filtration that your rock on it's own won't provide (plus a lot more due to the rock being able to perform denitrification as well) . Also, do you use ro/di water as well as do you test your water? In either case, what are your readings in terms of nitrate levels, calcium, magnesium, alk also, what is your tank temperature kept at and a bit more info would be needed on the skimmer you are using, the lighting and your flow sources. There are so many factors involved here that can make or break a system. You could possibly have the wrong water chemistry to keep corals, inadequet flow, insufficient lighting, water changes may need to be more frequent like 10% every week rather than 20% every 2 so as to remove waste a bit sooner from the tank before it has a chance to breakdown and degrade water quality etc. So if at all possible, give us a bit more detailed info so we can know exactly which direction we need to point you in.

 

[returnofsid]

The first thing I'd suggest is getting rid of both Blue Tangs. A 50 gallon aquarium isn't large enough for any tang, let alone 2 and 2 that get huge. It's not just about the ultimate size of the fish either. Tangs need LOTS of swimming room, much more than a 50 gallon aquarium is able to provide.

Next, As suggested, figure out what direction you want to go, either with this tank, or a new set up. This will help you determine your equipment needs. If you want a reef tank, you'll need much more intense lighting, than if you just want a Fish Only tank. Anemones require intense lighting, as well.

The "pumping finger" corals were probably Xenia. Be happy that you lost it!! Almost every newer reef hobbyist loves Xenia. Several year later, most HATE it, as it's very aggressive and can quickly take over your entire tank.

You've come to a great place to learn!! As a suggestion, read a lot, here. Look at a lot of pictures. Go to the Member Showcase forum and look at tank pics. This will help you, a lot, in figuring out what direction you want to go. Once you've figured that out, let us know and we'll help you get there, the right way!! Don't get discouraged. You may in fact be in over your head right now, as you suggested. We'll help you learn to swim! In the future, you'll have a beautiful tank, the way you want it!

 

[Lil_MovieStar]

Thanks so much!
The canister filter has crushed live rock in it, that's what the guy at the Salt Water Fish Store told me to put it in. But from the pics that I've been looking at, I've not seen any of the canister filters, so that's one of the reasons I was thinking I needed a different system.
I hate to ask but what do you mean ro/di water? I was getting all my water the the fish water store till they closed, then I started mixing it myself. I mix it and check the salt level before adding it to the tank.
Yes, I do test the water for nitrate levels, calcium, magnesium, alk levels.
The Lighting system that I have, I really don't know what it is, I will look and see if I can find a name/brand on it. I know that it has 2 white lights in it, and 1 blue light in it.
I'm sorry, I don't have 2 tangs, I have 2 damselfish
I will start doing some reading here every night and making myself some notes, I want to learn- Thanks so much for taking the time to help me. I did find the resource library, I will start reading there!
​

 

[Tureefik87]

If you ever think about buying a new set up go on craigslist it is the way to go because you can catch someone leaving the hobby. I would know what you want to keep in your tank and buy a set up to accommodate your livestock or even FO. Good luck and I have two damsels myself.

 

[OldFishMan]

Ehh, looks good. I used a UGF until last year --- that would be 4-years with a UGF under half my display --- I return my sump with a fully loaded Fluval 404. Spend some time with chemistry and learn to test with a few low cost API kits --- CA and KH --- keep some baking soda handy and always buy good heaters !

I have corals, I don't raise corals --- that is another ball game. Relax and enjoy your tank, read and make small changes. Tangs are fine, they usually rule the tank and my yellow tang is old --- not huge but old !

OFM

 

[returnofsid]

Ehh, looks good. I used a UGF until last year --- that would be 4-years with a UGF under half my display --- I return my sump with a fully loaded Fluval 404. Spend some time with chemistry and learn to test with a few low cost API kits --- CA and KH --- keep some baking soda handy and always buy good heaters !

I have corals, I don't raise corals --- that is another ball game. Relax and enjoy your tank, read and make small changes. Tangs are fine, they usually rule the tank and my yellow tang is old --- not huge but old !

OFM

OFM, welcome back. Haven't seen you post in quite awhile.

When giving advice, especially to inexperienced, please consider giving advice based on NOT what works in YOUR tank, but on what's ideal. Just because a UGF or Canister filter work in your tank, does not mean they'll work in the majority of tanks. Just because you have a healthy Tang, does not mean that 2 Blue Tangs, in a 60 gallon aquarium, is ideal. Far from ideal, actually.

Canister filters, typically become nitrate producing nightmares. UGF work great, in a fish only system, as you have. However, if you're wanting a reef system, they're far from ideal.

 

[OldFishMan]

OFM, welcome back. Haven't seen you post in quite awhile.

When giving advice, especially to inexperienced, please consider giving advice based on NOT what works in YOUR tank, but on what's ideal. Just because a UGF or Canister filter work in your tank, does not mean they'll work in the majority of tanks. Just because you have a healthy Tang, does not mean that 2 Blue Tangs, in a 60 gallon aquarium, is ideal. Far from ideal, actually.

Canister filters, typically become nitrate producing nightmares. UGF work great, in a fish only system, as you have. However, if you're wanting a reef system, they're far from ideal.

A UGF will work in any tank, the only problem is the water will look so clean you may not clean the tank when you should. Any filter will work in any tank --- and nitrates and phosphates can and should be controlled through your sump or a refugium. The tank should be balanced and many times with my sump I had to add plant food !

A tang will normally grow to the surroundings and they are territorial -- yellow and blue, blue eyed can all be mixed and I have and have seen this many times. Fish are like people may not be the best of neighbors, however, I see no problem at this time.

I have a FOWLR, wow, even a few corals --- since the question was not asked in the coral section ?

I will leave this site to never return, returnofsid and Boomer can answer all the questions that come up and sell your sponsers' R/O units, high priced test kits, substrate and Salt mixes to the masses !

OFM

 

[dieden]

Haha, sorry but I have to chime in. I have been trolling this site for a couple of years now as well as talking to as many local reefers. I have been told by my local reefers, LFS, and people on this great site many things. None of which ticked me off so much as to act like a childish fool... The people on this site give the advice that they feel helps the most. Not once have I had anyone tell me I have to buy a specific product without myself asking people's opinions on said products. Do not be confused... This is, thankfully, not RC in that aspect.

 

[mojoreef]

I will leave this site to never return, returnofsid and Boomer can answer all the questions that come up and sell your sponsers' R/O units, high priced test kits, substrate and Salt mixes to the masses !

Seems a little extreme wouldnt you say OFM? I actually agreed with you that UGF and canisters would work , BUT they do come with a price to pay for their use. Perhaps it would have been better to explain what the ups and downs in using them? At RF we try to explain both sides of the method/product/problem, the reasons they work and the reasons they dont, from their its always up to the end user to decide what path to choose.

On the moderators leading folks to sponsors,so they can sell their wears, really?? what about the purchase of a canister filter? or the UGF?

Anyway all members are welcome to bring out their ideas or concepts, but if those ideas go against the grain I think everyone should expect at least a question about it. DOnt you think??


Mojo

 

[WABlonde]

I can't give advice on what 'generally' works but we're running our 75 gallon on a Fluval FX5 canister filter and a skimmer. We were told we could put crushed LR in there but haven't. Can't recall what's in there now, something mixed with a bit of Carbon. For us, we haven't had any issues and don't plan on changing over to a sump anytime soon.

Best of luck! Keep us updated on your progress.

 

[returnofsid]

A tang will normally grow to the surroundings

Neither a Tang, nor any other fish, will "grow to the surroundings." That's a myth. You can stunt a fish's growth, by under feeding it and keeping it in a tank that's too small for it, but that's not at all advised, as it's very unhealthy and will result in a much shorter life span, of the fish.

OFM, I really don't understand your response. I welcomed you back, since you hadn't posted in a long time, in a friendly manner, and you threaten to leave....I don't get it.

Anyway, let's attempt to get this thread back on track.

 

[mojoreef]

WaBlonde and others a canister is pretty much a detritus trap (filter). Because it pours oxygenated water over a substraight it will become a great home for bacteria that will reduce ammonia to nitrate, but also because of the oxygen it wont allow for the growth of bacteria that will further reduce nitrate, so it will eventually become a nitrate producer. Can you still use it?? Absolutely! but you should work with in its pros and cons. SO we know its a dtritus trap, so we must maintain it as much as we can based on the bioload it serves. Also because its a greate enviroment for nitrifing bacteria we should look at doing a reall good clean or substraight change from time to time to knock back this bacteria growth. SO not a black and white thing just somethings we should know about it prior to using it so we have a better handle on it.

On the UGF, yes many folks use it, some use it as more of a plenum style of feature. The concept with it is that detritus filters down through the substraight, get nitrified from the bacteria that is with in the substraight. In a plenum the concept is that the void area below the UGF is the dentirifing area or an area devoid of oxygen so that the nitrate can be further reduced, it can work very well if set up correctly, but its tricky. On the straight UGF the concept is to suck the water along with the waste from under the UGF and then filter/clean it somehow. The concept can actually be a really good idea if you could figure out how to process the water/detritus that comes from under it. Normally it is far to toxic to just run through a few filters and call it a day, but if a process could be made to make sure you remove the waste and treat the water it could be an outstanding idea to help maintain sandbeds and not to worry about long term filling of them.

Mojo

 

[Skimmy]

there's so many ways to run a reef system....
BUT I think the important thing to look at is
what are the similar factors in all sucessful, stable reef systems???
If you read a book like "ultimate reef aquariums" and see several reef systems that
are thriving and beautiful, and start reading about the equipment and methods employed
on those systems, you will start to notice similarities...
as a general rule, you could say most sucessful reefs have;
1. a pound per gallon of live rock
2. enough flow to provide bacteria on live rock
enough contact with ammonia/nutrients for reducing to nitrogen,
and to provide proper respiration for corals, and to keep
detritus from settling on the live rock/sand.
3. a protein skimmer
4. a refugium
5. use of carbon(GAC) either in a media bag or reactor
6. use of purified water(ro, ro/di, UV, carbon)
7. high powered lights (T5ho, MH, LED's, VHO, PC's)

I think most people would agree with this...
and that isnt to say you cant do it differently,
but when starting out, i think it's better to stick with things that
are considered "tried and true".

 

[the6goat6man6]

SKIMMY, MOJOREEF, RETURNOFSID, KRISH and all of the other experienced Reefers and Fish Keepers give great advise. Anything that they have told me was not biased in any way. They always give pros, cons, and many suggestions. All questions get multiple answers, that way you can find what way is best for your systems needs.

I started with a canister filter and quikly found that it was problems. Maybe some people get them to work good for them, the only use I have for one is carbon, no filters. Then I change the carbon once a week cause it tends to catch junk like a filter anyways. My next tank wil not use one, the only reason i use one now is its part of the flow system.

On the ohter hand if you are not running a sump this may be your best choice, if it where me, I wouldn't let them go too long without cleaning or replacing the filters. They get nasty, fast!

But really listen to what the other guys and gilrs have to say, they know better than most! Good luck!

 

[NC2WA]

Donna,

Welcome to RF !!

Since you are doing some reading, I highly highly suggest you pick up a copy of the following book and read it:

Conscientious Marine Aquarist

This book will answer most of your questions and hopefully migitate your frustration/confusion.

It is an overall comprehensive book that covers tank selection, water parameters, diseases, tank cycling, live rock, etc..; the second half of the book covers the different fish genus and selection of them, and which ones to avoid.