Deep Sand Bed in a 24G AP

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yuridelima

Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
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14
Location
Woodbridge, VA, USA
Hi there,I'm new to this forum, I'm in the process of setting up a 24G Aquapod tank, I've got 2 questions:

Does anyone have a 24G Aquapod with a deep sand bed? Does it help out the tank? I was told on another forum that a deep sand bed on a 24G AP wouldn't do any good because the water would disturb the bacteria in the sand.

How many pounds of live rocks do you have in it?

Tankz,
Yuri.
 
Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!!

I'm not understanding how the water would disturb the bacteria in the sand. Did the advice to you regarding this go into any type of explaination? It doesn't make sense to me. I'd be interested in the explaination. The sandbed in a 24 gallon tank would function the same as other sandbeds. How deep were you going to make the sandbed?

Here are some other aquapod threads for you:

DaCube Jr...Aquapod 24

Scott's 24 gallon aquapod
 
Tankz for the welcoming and the links.

No that was the only explanation I got, the first time I only got a plain "No, a deep sand bed in a 24G Ap wouldn't do any good."
Then I got this explanation from another user:
I've read that a DSB doesn't provide any real denitrification in a nano tank because there just isn't the surface area available in such a small amount of space. I believe Eric Borneman or some other reef guru (or Dr. Ron Schmeck--I'm not really sure) did a study on the benefits of DSB in nano tanks, and the results indicated that they weren't that effective.

Now thinking about it I might just go with a 1" deep sand bed.

Tankz,
Yuri.
 
Just to start off, I like sand beds in general. Ron Shimek, and I believe Rob Toonen, looked at DSBs in small spaces.

Part of what makes DSBs work is a high density of bacteriovores and detrivores in the sand. Some of these are large and some are almost microscopic. They found that as the surface area of the DSB got smaller, so did the amount and diversity of the bacteriovores. So, the net effect is that the DSB will quickly max out on it's bacteria population, then get saturated with detritus. This leads to the experiences that many people have with DSBs turning into problems.

I hope that helps.

Josh
 
I have a 12 not a 24 but my sand is 1.5 to 2 inches. I put a hydor flow on it and the sand in the front right corner gets pushed left, so if it were any more shallow you might see the bottom. I also bought 12 lbs of figi but it looked to full for my tast so I kept about 10 in the display and put some in the back chamber. Hope it helps a little and lets see some pics of the progress.
 
I have a 12 not a 24 but my sand is 1.5 to 2 inches. I put a hydor flow on it and the sand in the front right corner gets pushed left, so if it were any more shallow you might see the bottom. I also bought 12 lbs of figi but it looked to full for my tast so I kept about 10 in the display and put some in the back chamber. Hope it helps a little and lets see some pics of the progress.

Yes, it does. I've been thinking as to how much live rock I want to put in my tank. I want enough b/c I want it to be the main filtration but I also want to live room for fish and inverts.

Have you switched you stock pump? Done any other modifications? Do you know anybody that has a refugium w/ a AP that not too big?

Tankz,
Yuri.
 
Yuri,

I'm going to give you a recommendation, give you a rudimentary reason for that recommendation, then give you some background info on why some writings done by hobbyists (even if they are doctors) might not always be the best advice. Since this is the New to Reefkeeping Forum, I don't want to get too complicated.

I would not put a DSB in a 24g Aquapod. I would recommend a shallow sand bed if you like the look of sand. The additional water that would be displaced by the sand is a whole lot more useful to you than having a DSB for denitrification. Water changes in a nano are quite easy and effective at removing nitrates. The bacteria don't have eyes....they don't have a clue if they are in the ocean, a 750 gallon tank, or a 24 gallon nano. In other words, in spite of what you've read, the bacteria will do what they are programmed to do and you'll get denitrification. You've apparently been doing a LOT of research and I applaud you for that. The remainder of this post will explain why a lot of the DSB articles are confusing to newbies and long time hobbyists alike.

Dr. Shimek has long said that a DSB is not useful in a nano tank because he is not merely interested in getting denitrification, he's interested in setting up mesocosms. A mesocosm would be considered an entirely self-contained ecosystem with the full food web in a glass box. His goal (which cannot be achieved IMO) was based off of a book written by Walter Adey and Karen Loveland. What Dr. Ron, Eric Borneman, Dr. Toonen, et al failed to tell hobbyists was that Adey had never actually set up an aquarium to test his theories prior to publishing the book. It should also be noted that Adey is a botanist and not a marine biologist.

Many a large scale aquarium or public aquarium has been started using Adey's and Loveland's theoretical work. And every single one of them failed. Since he was backed by the Smithsonian, his first trial with ATS's was the Fort Pierce Smithsonian Aquarium. After a short time, it became necessary to add carbon to remove gelbstoff (yellowing compounds from the algae), then they added mechanical filtration, then they added protein skimmers which went against everything Adey believed in as they were going to remove vital members of the food web.

This initial enthusiasm has been experienced by other public and research large scale aquariums including the Great Barrier Reef Aquarium, The Monaco Aquarium, one in Japan (I THINK Okinawa but I'm not sure so don't quote me on that) and his most recent completed---the Biosphere II. Every single one of these with the exception of Biosphere II has completely changed their filtration methods against the way Adey had them originally set up and went to traditional methods (waterchanges, protein skimmers, activated carbon, and ozone).

Here's some pics of Biosphere II from a couple of years back before the University took it over.

bio10.jpg


bio9.jpg


bio8.jpg


I think it's important that you realize these pictures were taken in full sunlight and that's how much the water was darkened by all of the gelbstoff released by the algaes. Just about every single coral in that huge tank was killed by algae and even though there are thousands of tangs in there, they cannot keep up with the algae. If you squint real hard, you can see a couple of Hippo Tangs in addition to the yellow tangs.
 
Hey there, tankz for the wonderful information. Yes I have been doing a LOT LOT of research. So far I read 4 books on the whole reef keeping/marine/ nano reef tank subjects, spent many many hours here in this forum, others forums, and the web, now I've come to the point where I just have a big headache and an empty tank waiting to be set up (well was also waiting on some supplies to arrive), they have finally arrives now, so I'll be setting it up soon. But I'm so confused with things due to the fact that there are so many opinions here, everywhere. I know I read things, hear things and try to make my own best judgement. I'm going to go with a Shallow Sand Bed. Only 1" deep. I don't feel comfortable going with a bare bottom right now.

I don't know, before all I could think about was getting my tank, now that I have it I really scared to set it up. So many things that could go wrong. I don't know, I hope things work out. Wish me luck, I guess.

Again tankz for the information,
Yuri.
 
Hakuna Matata (It means....No Worries).

I always want people to do research because many do not. You've done too much and it's confusing.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. Tell us what you want. Do you want a;

1) BB tank
2) SSB tank because you like the look of sand
3) DSB tank because you believe that will relieve you of the chore of periodic water changes.

As Mojoreef always says, "Pick your poison". Yuri....there's many ways of doing this and there is no BEST way. The key is to decide what you want and then learn the benefits and limitations of your choice. Once that happens, we can help you achieve your goals.
 
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I would be wary about putting a dsb in a 24g Aquapod personally. I don't think you'd be happy about the look for one. I'm a big advocate of flow over deep sand beds and to achieve this in a tank that small might be difficult without creating a sandstorm. I run a dsb in my 40g, but the tank is 21" tall. This allowed me to do a 4-5" deep sand bed without losing a lot of space from top to bottom. If it were me, I'd do an inch or less of an aragonite sand. ;)
 
Hakuna Matata (It means....No Worries).

I always want people to do research because many do not. You've done too much and it's confusing.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. Tell us what you want. Do you want a;

1) BB tank
2) SSB tank because you like the look of sand
3) DSB tank because you believe that will relieve you of the chore of periodic water changes.

As Mojoreef always says, "Pick your poison". Yuri....there's many ways of doing this and there is no BEST way. The key is to decide what you want and then learn the benefits and limitations of your choice. Once that happens, we can help you achieve your goals.

Number 2, that's what I want. A SSB tank b/c I like the look of sand.

In the 3 back chambers I want to have:
In the 1st:
Ceramic substrate that came with tank.
Some live rock rubble
A MJ1200 powerhead
Fission Nano Skimmer

In the 2nd: (I made a 2nd chamber by cutting some egg crate (light diffuser) this was based on someone's project on his 24G Aquapod tank)

Will contain some Macro Algae (chaeto, I think it's what it is called)

In the 3rd chamber:
Heather 75W
Return pump MJ1200

I am also trying to add a DIY sump of some kind, but it has to be small due to space (the tank is in my room) doesn't have to be right now.

Where would you recommend I buy some live rock from? online? Where do you guys/girls buy your live rock at?

Tankz,
Yuri.
 
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Number 2, that's what I want. A SSB tank b/c I like the look of sand.


Like Curt said, there's lots of ways to go about getting a successful aquarium. Based on what you've said so far, it looks like you have a good plan. Once the tank has cycled, just be regular with the water-changes and be patient! Good luck!

Josh
 
Welcome to RF!! If you like the look of sand, then I'd shoot for a ssb. I liked the look of sand, but didn't like the idea of having to care for it so I opted for a bare bottom tank and just used white pvc board (similar to starboard) to give the appearance of a white bottom. Whatever works best for you is always the best option. Good luck with it!:)
 

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