Deep Sand Bed

[trillyen]

Ok here in a few days both my 125 gallon and my 75 gallon will be like 3 months old

my 75 gl, is a reef tank and i been having problems raising my calcium, probably because of low mag but im not sure cause i cant find a salifert mag test which i hear is the only one worth having

any who in the process of finding one i ran into a guy at my lfs that was telling me that i should add a deep sand bed to my refuge, so that the benifical bacteria would establish a balance and decide which levels of the sand to live at and in turn have a positive effect on my tank,

in my experience so far ive come to find that what works for 1 may not work for another, and so on and so forth.

would this or could this help my cal levels??

i wouldnt think so but in this crazy hobby anything is possible

my cal is like 300 my alk is like 11 dkh my ph is around 8.2

0 ammonia and bad stuff

thanks hope this is the right forum!!!

 

[Krish]

Never heard of a sand bed affecting calcium really. Only ever heard of it helping to maintain a proper ph using the right type of sand. In any event, here's a bump for you incase someone else may know

 

[JoshF]

I doubt it would help your cal levels, but it might provide a good way to reduce nutrient levels in the tank. DSB as well as the live rock will tend to provide an anoxic zone in which nitrates will be reduced to nitrogen gas which will bubble out of the tank. This finished the nitrogen cycle. Perhaps more significantly, DSBs and refugiums in general provide a great breeding ground for lots of critters that act as food for the fish and corals in your tank...

Good luck! I've seen several of your posts and it seems like you're on the right track. You're asking lots of questions, which is probably the best thing you can do.

Josh

P.S. Good lord Krish, I just noticed your post count...

 

[Krish]

I doubt it would help your cal levels, but it might provide a good way to reduce nutrient levels in the tank. DSB as well as the live rock will tend to provide an anoxic zone in which nitrates will be reduced to nitrogen gas which will bubble out of the tank. This finished the nitrogen cycle. Perhaps more significantly, DSBs and refugiums in general provide a great breeding ground for lots of critters that act as food for the fish and corals in your tank...

Good luck! I've seen several of your posts and it seems like you're on the right track. You're asking lots of questions, which is probably the best thing you can do.

Great info!

P.S. Good lord Krish, I just noticed your post count...

LOL! Who did that???? :lol:

 

[trillyen]

P.S. Good lord Krish, I just noticed your post count...

funny you mentioned that right before i read your post i read his and just so happened to notice his post count, there shortly after i noticed he was a mod, and i was quickly then unimpressed!!!! lol jk

that is alot of posts mod or not!!!, dang!!!

ive been thinking of adding a deep sand bed but i dont wanna do the whole refuge.

could i just get a glass beer mug, and fill it up with aragonite live sand, and go from there, that would be like 6 or 7 inches deep!!!

would the live sand from pets smart be ok???

thanks for the bump krish you are ok in my book dawg!!!

I just want to add as much benifical stuff to my tank as possible

thanks!!!!

 

[mmkeeper]

You don't need to make the whole sandbed with live sand. Get dry stuff and a bag or two of live to seed it. Save some money.

 

[DonW]

You don't need to make the whole sandbed with live sand. Get dry stuff and a bag or two of live to seed it. Save some money.

You dont need any live sand at all if you have live rock. No need to kick start saturation. It will do fine on its own and maybe give you a longer lifecycle.

Don

 

[JoshF]

Also, for a DSB you want really fine sand. The best kind is called oolitic or sugar sand. It forms in the ocean in areas of extreme calcium saturation and just literally snows out of the water. It's not only fine, but very soft edges also.

I'd agree with Don about seeding the live sand. If you were really obsessive about sand beds, you could trade sand from your tank with sand from a bunch of other tanks in your area to seed it with beneficial life. The other school of thought, which I know Don subscribes to from reading some recent threads of his, is to buy dead sand and dead rock and seed it with as little live rock as possible to significantly reduce the chance of nuisance critters or harmful parasites. Lots of pros and cons either way, and probably literally hundreds of threads on various boards with debates on the merits and how-to's of sand beds.

If you really want to know, then dive in. You sound more like you're curious if it would provide a small benefit, and don't want to do a refugium, so I wouldn't personally add a sand bed to an established tank. It makes a hell of a mess and is a PITA for a while. If you have any corals currently, it will really piss them off also.

Have fun!

Josh

 

[trillyen]

Hey thanks for the post guys!!

maybe i left some stuff out

my tank has only been up 3 months, i already have a refuge, and im wondering if i could just add a deep sand bed in a beer glass mug that would be like 6 or 7 inches deep

would that serve as a deep sand bed, would that be benifical.

thanks for the advice guys, i think i will go with a real fine fine sand, and hope fully itll get saturated with some cal

if i dont use live sand is there a chance that my sand will cause a cycle in my tank since its being added and its not live????

thanks!! fellas!!!

 

[Snowboarda42]

Not much chance of a huge cycle, possibly a mini cycle. You'll want to add no more than 1/2" at a time. I did 1/2" up front first, waited a week or so, then did the same in the back, and I had no mini cycle whatsoever.


BTW, what are you using to raise your Ca Levels, and what test kit are you using?

 

[NaH2O]

trillyen - you have to really think about why you want to change something. You need to figure out if you need to make that change at all. Are you experiencing nitrate problems? I'm not against having a DSB (although I don't think a mug 6-7 inches deep is going to do much for your 75 gallon or the 125 gallon....a bucket might be a different story), but I'm not a fan of changing a system around when you aren't sure if you need it or not.

Your sand isn't going to do anything for your calcium issue. Once you get a good test kit, we can see if your calcium is an issue (did you test your make up salt?). Before you make a change to your 3 month system again, let's work on getting your water parameters in line, and deal with the normal issues of a new tank. There is a learning curve we all go through, and I'd hate for you to jump back and forth with a bunch of different system changes, before you understand the effects of the changes you make (pros and cons).

A DSB certainly adds bacterial populations, and is fine for denitrification, if you are interested in keeping sand loving critters, or if you like the look. At the same time, you might not need to mess with it. What prompted the person at the store to tell you to add a DSB? Were you explaining a problem?

 

[HarleyDude]

I totally agree with NaH2O - adding a DSB could have its pros, but with such a new system, I would get it stable and understand why a change is needed. In my previous 72-gallon I put a DSB in the tank right off the bat and can not imagine trying to add it after the fact. When I upgraded to the 180-gallon I decided I didn't want the DSB in the display tank, so I put in a RDSB (Remote Deep Sand Bed). It is simply a 55-gallon tank that sits off to the side of my sump that holds 6 inches of sand, which was the sand from my old 72-gallon, and water gets pumped from the sump into the RDSB and returns to the sump. I did this for a few reasons, one of which I didn't want to throw away the sand from my original tank, the denitrification assistance, additional water volume and additional critters. Also, I kept mine as a cryptic environment (no lights).

So, this may be an option for you down the road.

 

[trillyen]

Not much chance of a huge cycle, possibly a mini cycle. You'll want to add no more than 1/2" at a time. I did 1/2" up front first, waited a week or so, then did the same in the back, and I had no mini cycle whatsoever.


BTW, what are you using to raise your Ca Levels, and what test kit are you using?

im using kent marine liquid cal concentrated to raise the cal level, and i am testing with a API, and its seeming to go down more than up

I added 10 teaspoons of the kent marine to my tank last night and then tested it about a hour later and it was still the same

My API tests work some what cause its showing the results of my cal actually dropping!!!!

thanks.

 

[trillyen]

trillyen - you have to really think about why you want to change something. You need to figure out if you need to make that change at all. Are you experiencing nitrate problems? I'm not against having a DSB (although I don't think a mug 6-7 inches deep is going to do much for your 75 gallon or the 125 gallon....a bucket might be a different story), but I'm not a fan of changing a system around when you aren't sure if you need it or not.

Your sand isn't going to do anything for your calcium issue. Once you get a good test kit, we can see if your calcium is an issue (did you test your make up salt?). Before you make a change to your 3 month system again, let's work on getting your water parameters in line, and deal with the normal issues of a new tank. There is a learning curve we all go through, and I'd hate for you to jump back and forth with a bunch of different system changes, before you understand the effects of the changes you make (pros and cons).

A DSB certainly adds bacterial populations, and is fine for denitrification, if you are interested in keeping sand loving critters, or if you like the look. At the same time, you might not need to mess with it. What prompted the person at the store to tell you to add a DSB? Were you explaining a problem?

Yeah im about to go test my new mixed water here in a min ill post the results later, i can bet its not gonna be to my liking though!!!

The person at the store if i remember correctly said that there is oolite sand or real fine sand at certain points in the ocean that get really saturated with calcium, so i was thinking that maybe if i added some sand of this fine of a grade it may help my cal situation a little.

Seemingly though i will probably just forget the whole thing seeing as a big beer mug wont work, and i Do keep my refuge lighted at night time also any way so i guess its really not for me right now any way

I was gonna change to a coral life salt mix also, because of the cal and mag element concentration, but i have herd things about that salt mix already!!!

 

[trillyen]

I totally agree with NaH2O - adding a DSB could have its pros, but with such a new system, I would get it stable and understand why a change is needed. In my previous 72-gallon I put a DSB in the tank right off the bat and can not imagine trying to add it after the fact. When I upgraded to the 180-gallon I decided I didn't want the DSB in the display tank, so I put in a RDSB (Remote Deep Sand Bed). It is simply a 55-gallon tank that sits off to the side of my sump that holds 6 inches of sand, which was the sand from my old 72-gallon, and water gets pumped from the sump into the RDSB and returns to the sump. I did this for a few reasons, one of which I didn't want to throw away the sand from my original tank, the denitrification assistance, additional water volume and additional critters. Also, I kept mine as a cryptic environment (no lights).

So, this may be an option for you down the road.

Hey i love the idea of having a dsb out side of my refuge, but i dont have any plumbing skills, all my returns are done with tubing.

i would really be for adding a out side huge deep sand bed in a 29 gallon or even a 10 gallon, my diy skills are limited though, im really good with wood work, and right now im in the process of learning how to use a router to make my own DIY over flows!!!

ill learn how to plumb a tank real soon!!!!

 

[HarleyDude]

I, personally, think a 29-gallon's footprint would be too small for a RDSB and not sure if you would gain the benefits for a 125-gallon tank.

 

[trillyen]

Yeah i think im moving on to bigger and better things, but im all for LEARNING how to plumb a DEEP SAND BED into my refuge.

i will do the do one day!!!

 

[reefchaos]

From the initial post of yours I would suspect that your having trouble raising your calcium levels due to low magnesium levels. I have been going through the same problem over the last 6mo or so and come to the conclusion that it is my magnesium levels that are partially to blame. Also another problem is that calcium and alkalinity have an inverse relationship. So if one is really high like an alkalinity of 11dkh then it is going to be difficult to raise your calcium levels to an adequate level. The amount of inhabitants you have also can influence your clacium and alkalinity levels such as heavily populated sps tanks, or clam tanks etc... Most importantly for future reefkeeping you are going to want to invest in three good quality test kits (Ca, Alkalinity, & Mg).
If you can't find Salifert's Mg test kit try looking for Lamonte which is a high quality lab grade test kit's. I also have a deep sand bed of about 7" and can attest to the fact that it will do very little in raising or stabilizing your calcium and alkalinity levels. I would recommend solving you water quality issue first then carefully researching DSB's.
I hope this helps!

 

[Damsel13]

trillyen I am way impressed you are doing any plumbing at all. I am scared to death of having a flood but I sure would love to have a a sump/fuge under my 55gal.. It would be a tight fit even if I had skills.

Sorry to hijack...didn't know I did that till Spongebob Lover pointed it out but I couldn't resist after your anger over the light. ( I would have be pissed too!) And your interest in sandbeds. I had one. It was cool. I had it for about 10 years. Now I have a very shallow sandbed but I miss the sand. I am going to tag along your thread and see what you decide to do.

 

[Scooterman]

Yeah i think im moving on to bigger and better things, but im all for LEARNING how to plumb a DEEP SAND BED into my refuge.

i will do the do one day!!!

The point of a DSB is to process stuff in your main display, remote DSB are useless unless you can actually dump all Detritus into it so It can get processes & I doubt that will happen unless you really have an elaborate system without sand in the main tank, otherwise you have to worry about keeping the sand in the main from blowing all over & that will allow detritus to settle there.