detritus

[Scooterman]

I'm not trying to disagree when I asked about your rocks I wanted to see if you were getting any shed at all which it does seem, I was trying to point out a system with just LR & a skimmer your rocks life is under heavier demands & it seems they would shed off more than lets say your system.
Now the skimmers, you've started something worth looking into, think you could start a new thread & make improvements on a skimmer that would be an easy DIY for most wanting a better or more efficient skimmer?

 

[mojoreef]

Well I have never heard my system discribed that way Luke, lol

He uses the detritus to his advantage, as the corals feed on the bacterias its covered in

Better to feed the corals then the sand right??

Rather than having his water continously stripped of quick to strip things like a typical high flow skimmed tank, his tank just trickles an amount of water into his super amazing skimmer that basically restores it like NSW, then trickles it back in the tank.

I think your loosing the concept a bit. The skimmer skims at a rate of about 500gph, so it treats all the water in the tank at a rate of about 99.9% every 15 hours. But still puts the whole tanks worth of water through it every couple of hours. This type of skimming can be done by venturi type skimmers also, it just has to be recirculated with in the skimmer to match contact and dwell times.
The detritus in my tank is not allowed to just build up on the bottom. The tank has about 15000gph in it with out the lower closed loop running, most of the detritus is kept in circulation in the water column and used by the critters and then taken out of the tank to be filtered. Even with that their are some spots where the detritus collects on the bottom, for that I have the lower loop that I turn on once a week, its a 8800 gph pump that swepps the bottom clear and takes it to a 5 micron sock in the sump for quick removal. So once in the sump I remove it via the skimmer, burn it with the UV, oxidize it with ozone and manually remove what ever I can.

Anyway just so its clear.


MIke

 

[jlehigh]

So once in the sump I remove it via the skimmer, burn it with the UV, oxidize it with ozone and manually remove what ever I can.

This is a message to all! You better stay on Mike's good side.. or else! lol

poor detritus

 

[DonW]

I get a little protective of the equipment that I actually like

IMO, A proper air stone skimmer (like Mikes) is a very neat tool. Also IMO venturi types are very poor replacments that cause more detrimental issues than they help (unless its a FO/FOLR).

99.9% of the world dissagrees with me, and I would be worried if they didn't.

I guess I'm a sensitive guy.

What are the "detrimental issues" ? Other than just plain being more effiecient whats the difference in my skimming 240 times per day vs twice per day.

Don

 

[Krish]

So Mike has about 24,000 gph running through his tank if he were to run all pumps huh I shouldn't have read that...I need to order some more stuff from Premium Aquatics...Thanks for the motivation Mike

 

[spongebob lover]

So Mike has about 24,000 gph running through his tank if he were to run all pumps huh I shouldn't have read that...I need to order some more stuff from Premium Aquatics...Thanks for the motivation Mike

omg !!! Krish stop reading this thread !!! .

 

[liveforphysics]

Don W- I find them detrimental because the easiest, quickest things to strip happen to be very bennificial things like phytoplankton, plankton, and other foods that the corals themselves dont eat directly, but micro and macro fauna do consume. These animals are then foundation blocks on a food chain of bennificial organisms.

For example, in my early tanks, I used high flow skimmers. I had lots of detritus, had to watch my feeding carefully to keep no3 at zero, always had periodic algae blooms, PO4 would never read zero on a low range test etc... The tanks worked, but general maintence was high, and performance was average.

After going to an algae filtered system, i can hugely overfeed, no visible detritus, ZERO algae growth or blooms, much healthier looking organisims, and a much higher population of macro fauna (indicated by perviously spying on the tanks at night and seeing many tiny critters roaming about VS currently when I spy on the critters at night and the whole tank is just swarming thick with little pods and things covering pretty much all surfaces of anything in the tank). I can actually watch my corals capture tiny animals in there polyps frequently now (at night only), I never got to see it occur when I skimmed.

 

[Krish]

So Luke...What happens with your tank in the day when the critters are "in" or "hiding" and there's nothing to consume the detritus in the tank during this time? Does your rocks shed detritus then (day), or does your critters clean up so much at night that there isn't anything left in the day ?

 

[liveforphysics]

I assume that detritus is produced equally 24hrs a day. It appears the nocturnal fauna is able to keep up with the production with no trouble.

If you read an earlier post on the first page here, I write about where the detritus goes after its been consumed.

 

[moortim]

For the sake of avoiding completely changing the direction of this thread and even though I know I may be opening a bee's nest I am going to start a new thread about systems without skimmers. My skimmer broke a while ago and I have been running without one with only my sump and refugium and I haven't had any problems. So for further discussion about this topic I am suggesting the new location.

Tim

 

[Krish]

I assume that detritus is produced equally 24hrs a day. It appears the nocturnal fauna is able to keep up with the production with no trouble.

If you read an earlier post on the first page here, I write about where the detritus goes after its been consumed

Cool...Thanks

 

[mojoreef]

What are the "detrimental issues" ? Other than just plain being more effiecient whats the difference in my skimming 240 times per day vs twice per day

Because with out the correct ammount of contact time in the mixing chamber you are missing about half of the protiens you want to skim out.


Mike

 

[DonW]

Because with out the correct ammount of contact time in the mixing chamber you are missing about half of the protiens you want to skim out.


Mike

Thats efficiency, I'll rephrase why would a venturi skimmer vs a air stone be detrimental to reef inhabitants. Assuming they are both skimming out as much as can be skimmed in a 24 hour period.

Don

 

[liveforphysics]

DonW- You arent understanding the concept of whats occuring.

You are smart guy, and I like you. Mike gave you a subtle (more subtle than the direct meaning) clue. Think about whats occuring, and then you post back to us as to what the difference is.

BTW- I'm not meaing this in a smart-ass way, please dont take it that way.

 

[mojoreef]

I'll rephrase why would a venturi skimmer vs a air stone be detrimental to reef inhabitants

It would depend on the type of venturi, the normal smaller version I see nothing detrimental. With the beckett style it tends to frieght train and thus alot of living biologicals get taken out.

Assuming they are both skimming out as much as can be skimmed in a 24 hour period.

Again that would depend on what is in the skimate. Again with out the proper amount of contact time it is impossible to get a lot of the protiens you want to remove out. Doesnt matter how many times the water goes through the skimmer


Luke why dont you just say what you are talking about


Mike

 

[DonW]

It would depend on the type of venturi, the normal smaller version I see nothing detrimental. With the beckett style it tends to frieght train and thus alot of living biologicals get taken out.

Luke why dont you just say what you are talking about


Mike

Thanks Mike,
Since this is a detritus discussion and alot of people are still using felt filter socks 24/7 to remove it. Would you say that to many "living biologicals" are taken out or trapped by these felt filter socks?

Don

 

[mojoreef]

You bet, if you ran sock 24/7 you would quickly strip out these biologicals. Best to only don that on a regular maintence schedule.


Mike

 

[DonW]

You bet, if you ran sock 24/7 you would quickly strip out these biologicals. Best to only don that on a regular maintence schedule.


Mike

Thanks Mike. Would you consider this a cause for slow coral (acro's only) growth assuming there is no nutrient and lighting issues.

Don

 

[mojoreef]

It would depend on what you are concidering sps coral growth? is it tissue build up or the thing is getting longer??
With tissue it has to do with the corals intake via lighting/absorbsion and capture. If its the over all coral is not getting longer then it would be more on the chemistry issue??
You also have to look at the thickness of the corals branches, how is it baseing out also.

Mike

 

[DonW]

It would depend on what you are concidering sps coral growth? is it tissue build up or the thing is getting longer??
With tissue it has to do with the corals intake via lighting/absorbsion and capture. If its the over all coral is not getting longer then it would be more on the chemistry issue??
You also have to look at the thickness of the corals branches, how is it baseing out also.

Mike

I'll take some new pics and start another thread, Ive got a few non growers.

Thanks
Don