Diagnosis for a clown

[Almondsaz]

Can anyone help diagnose what might be going on with my male clown? He hosts a clump of Xenia so I thought originally that it was just the slime/dirt from the Xenia since he is always in them. This just started the other day and isn't going away.

Hope the pic helps, he never goes to see the cleaner shrimp so that is what really has me concerned.

Any help with the diagnosis and cure would be greatly appreciated.

David

 

[NaH2O]

How long have you had the clown, and do you have a quarantine tank you can move the clown to? I would get the clown moved as soon as you can. Does the clown look like it is sloughing off skin? How is the clown behaving?

A Quarantine Process

 

[Almondsaz]

Ihave had the clown for about 1 1/2 years and this is the first sign of disease for him. It does look a little like sloughing off the skin. I have a QT. Right now it is behaving normally.

 

[NaH2O]

Were there any new additions to the tank? If so, what was it? I would move the clown to quarantine as soon as you can. I don't know if its brook or velvet??? Hopefully, when Lee posts on the thread he can give you some more insight as to what the disease actually is.

 

[Almondsaz]

Is this something that the UV should help minimize the spread?

 

[leebca]

David,

UV doesn't prevent the spread nor prevent parasite attack. It can reduce a bloom of parasites under certain conditions. Don't count on it as a preventative nor curing process.

The fish looks particularly bad. It needs to be put into a hospital tank immediately. It sure has the appearance of Marine Velvet, but I can't tell for sure. I can say that if it is Marine Velvet, the fish should be dead by now.

But for this fish to get such a disease means that something came into the marine system that wasn't quarantined and yet may not have displayed a problem. You didn't answer the question on recent additions, so I'll ask again. . .Did you put any new marine life into the system during the past 6 weeks? If so, what did you add? Was it quarantined first?

I'd like you to look for other symptoms:
Is the fish breathing faster than 80 times a minute? Count the 'breaths' it takes in 15 secs and multiply by four. Repeat this three more times and get an average. Please provide me with that number.
Is the fish still eating? What is it eating? What has it been fed and how often do you feed the fish?
Any behavior change in the fish? Since you've had the fish quite some time, you should notice if it has changed its behavior recently. List any changes you've noticed.
Was this fish wild caught or tank bred?
Are you sure the white area seen in the picture is mucous coating, or something attached to the fish, like just under or on the skin.
Does the white area looks like small spots close together or solid white?

The excess mucous would be a natural response of the fish trying to rid itself of a skin problem. Brooklynellosis is possible if the fish is stressed, not fed enough, and/or not getting proper nutrition. A reaction to the Xenia is possible.

Whatever is happening, a secondary bacterial infection is most likely, if not the current primary problem. Obtain as fast as you can some Maracyn Two for Saltwater Fish and have it standing by.

Give the fish a Freshwater bath. Follow these guidelines BUT only dip the fish for 10 minutes: Fresh Water Fish Dip. If you don't have Methylene Blue, proceed with the bath anyway. I want you to inspect the bath water after the dip, closely for anything that may have come off the fish. I will need an accurate description of anything that you see in the fresh water bath after the dip.

Good luck!

 

[Almondsaz]

David,

UV doesn't prevent the spread nor prevent parasite attack. It can reduce a bloom of parasites under certain conditions. Don't count on it as a preventative nor curing process. I appreciate the clarification, I had purchased the AquaUV in hopes of a preventative for MI or at least to minimize the existence in my tank

The fish looks particularly bad. It needs to be put into a hospital tank immediately. It sure has the appearance of Marine Velvet, but I can't tell for sure. I can say that if it is Marine Velvet, the fish should be dead by now.

But for this fish to get such a disease means that something came into the marine system that wasn't quarantined and yet may not have displayed a problem. You didn't answer the question on recent additions, so I'll ask again. . .Did you put any new marine life into the system during the past 6 weeks? If so, what did you add? Was it quarantined first?Lee: the only thing I added in the past 6 weeks was a group of coral. A friend called late one night with a tank leak and had no where to put his coral. He brought them to my house and I didn't have the QT set-up, so they went into the display. Could this have been the cause?

I'd like you to look for other symptoms:
Is the fish breathing faster than 80 times a minute? Count the 'breaths' it takes in 15 secs and multiply by four. Repeat this three more times and get an average. Please provide me with that number. I will check his respiration once he settles in a little bit into the hospital tank
Is the fish still eating? He is still eatingWhat is it eating? He is offered Marine Pellet Formula Two, Frozen Mysis, Frozen Brine, Frozen Bloodworms, Cyclopeze and all the fish seem to like to pick at the silverside leftovers when I feed the RBTA/GBTAWhat has it been fed and how often do you feed the fish?I feed twice a day and vary the offerings through the week.
Any behavior change in the fish? Since you've had the fish quite some time, you should notice if it has changed its behavior recently. List any changes you've noticed.Behavior has been fairly normal for him, the only thing of note is 1) he will rest on the xenia at night which he ususally was always swimming in them, and 2) since the illness, he spends time away from the xenia and under the shelf rock where the cleaner shrimp is

Was this fish wild caught or tank bred?He was tank bred
Are you sure the white area seen in the picture is mucous coating, or something attached to the fish, like just under or on the skin.
Does the white area looks like small spots close together or solid white?From my observations so far I can say for certain that it is just a mucous coating, I will check when I observe his respiration

The excess mucous would be a natural response of the fish trying to rid itself of a skin problem. Brooklynellosis is possible if the fish is stressed, not fed enough, and/or not getting proper nutrition. A reaction to the Xenia is possible. I believe with the varied diet and good appetite he is getting proper nutrition - oh they all get nori 2x a week (I don't have any tangs)

Whatever is happening, a secondary bacterial infection is most likely, if not the current primary problem. Obtain as fast as you can some Maracyn Two for Saltwater Fish and have it standing by. Well I probably goofed up, I got the Maracyn Two and put the starting dose in the HT and plan to carry out the dosage as recommended on the box.

Give the fish a Freshwater bath. Follow these guidelines BUT only dip the fish for 10 minutes: Fresh Water Fish Dip. If you don't have Methylene Blue, proceed with the bath anyway. I want you to inspect the bath water after the dip, closely for anything that may have come off the fish. I will need an accurate description of anything that you see in the fresh water bath after the dip. Last night I gave him a fresh water dip and did not have the Methylene Blue, becuse this took place before your post I did not get to observe the exact matter remaining in the container. There was some matter floating around, but not in a specific shape that I would call a 'parasite' that I would recognize as foreign matter.

Good luck! Lee: I can't thank you enough for all your help and advice. I have attached a pic of TAG today after going into the HT, seems a little better but that could be wishful thinking

Lee: comments in red above

 

[leebca]

Let's see if I manage to address all your concerns. If I miss any, just ask them again along with any new questions you may have. . .

Your friend's tank could have been a source of fish disease IF your friend's tank has fish in it AND your friend doesn't prevent disease in the marine system (e.g., your friend doesn't use a quarantine system to prevent diseases from getting into his display). Even if the friend's tank was not diseased, it most likely had its own population of bacteria that are now mixed with you own. A healthy, well nourished fish can handle this shift in bacteria, but I think the fish is not getting its best nutrition.

The diet does need improvement. I understand you believe you have provided a good one. You have indeed varied the diet, but varied the diet with foods that the fish doesn't normally eat. Bloodworms are not marine food; pellets contain wheat which the fish can't digest and just goes through the fish and into your system as pollution and food for bacteria; mysis may be okay IF it is saltwater mysis; brine shrimp has too little nutrition and is not a natural food of marine fishes. Cyclopeze, the bio-engineered pod, is high in fats and isn't bad, but not a true staple in the diet. Some suggestions here: Feed marine seaweed daily, remove any that isn't consumed in an hour; Cyclopeze is good about once or twice every 21 feedings. Please give a close read to this long post: Fish Health Through Proper Nutrition.

More suggestions on diet: In 21 feedings, use an enriched brine shrimp (gut loaded with vitamins and/or fats and/or spirulina) about 4 feedings; introduce ocean plankton and small krill; provide whole foods (like the plankton) when possible, but for about 7 feedings out of 21 provide chopped squid, chopped shrimp, whole clam (on the half shell or chopped), fresh chopped scallop meat, and such as suggested in the above post. Begin to use a vitamin and fat supplement as recommended in the above post.

We missed a good opportunity by examining the bath water. It is not only a possible cure, but a great diagnostic tool. Keep treating with the Maracyn Two. If it is the right treatment, the fish should show visible signs of improvement in about 3-4 days. If the matter hasn't cleared up at the end of the 5-day treatment, do a second 5-day treatment but this time double the amount of the medication.

The fish's own behavior seems to suggest that it knows not to go near the Xenia. I think separating the fish from the Xenia may give it a chance to heal with some help from you, so I'm hoping for signs of improvement just from the separation AND an improved diet.

 

[Almondsaz]

Lee: when I make up the new fish food, how long will it last in a fridge? If you use supplements to augment the food it would seem that it needs to absorb...or do I have this all wrong? Thanks again. David

 

[Almondsaz]

Lee: the clown looks great and 'appears' free of the mucous layer he once had. I was going to complete the 1 week of treatment and then observe him without treatment for another week before re-introducing him back into the DT. Do you think this is an acceptable path forward? Obviously he will only go back into the DT if he remains looking and acting normal and keeps his good appetite.

THank you for all your help!

David

 

[leebca]

David,

I would strongly urge you keep the fish in quarantine for no less than 4 weeks after the treatment. This gives the fish a chance to fully recover and ready to return to the DT. It also provides you with a clear opportunity to verify the fish has in fact recovered and isn't 'fooling.'

Otherwise, that is very good news. It's good to hear of a happy ending now and then.

 

[leebca]

Lee: when I make up the new fish food, how long will it last in a fridge? If you use supplements to augment the food it would seem that it needs to absorb...or do I have this all wrong? Thanks again. David

Sorry. I didn't realize I missed this post. . .

I would freeze foods that you've cleaned and prepared for feeding. When frozen, cut into small pieces while frozen and don't allow to thaw, and then back into the freezer. It should last about a month in the freezer before things start going bad, depending upon how you've packaged it. The thicker the bag or container the better.

The bits of food are then put on a clean small plate and then a few drops of the supplement is added to it. 10 minutes after the bits thaw, it is about ready. The food is soaked in this way. Drain off the excess supplement and feed the bits.

 

[Almondsaz]

Thank you Lee for the responses. I will start the 4 weeks once the 1 week of treatment is up. I have changed the diet of the tank and make it up "fresh' each day. I will experiment with freezing some. Trying to track down locally some of the supplements to augment the food. Thanks again! David