Different brands of salt

[Beckmola24]

I wanted to share some articles I came across today. I was curious what brands of salt everyone uses here. I was reading on RC and some people have been having some problems with Oceanic salt. I have been using Oceanic salt since it first came out which happened to coincide with my starting saltwater. I haven't had a single problem with it, but here is the thread from RC. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=511981

I found the thread on RC interesting. It led me to this article on the premium aquatics website about the composition about different brands of salt. It's a great article and it's well worth taking the time to read it. IMO http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/rs/feature/index.htm

Hope you get something out of this like I did.

 

[Scooterman]

Salt

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4103

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=56631#post56631

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-07/rhf/index.htm

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2002/chemistry.htm

 

[NaH2O]

I think that article was one Ron took some flack for.

I switched from Oceanic to IO because I wanted to see if it was part of my algae problem. Oceanic has very high levels of Magnesium and Calcium when mixed to S=35. Here is a thread on Magnesium

Also, another thread about: Changing Salt Mix

Here is an article: A Chemical Analysis of Select Trace Elements in Synthetic Sea Salts and Natural Seawater

Oops - I wanted to add all salts have pros and cons. Choose the salt that works best for you.

 

[wrightme43]

I like my plain old I.O. works great for me. Seems like it has worked well for alot of people for a long time. Steve

 

[Elmo18]

Been using Instant Ocean for 3 years. Never going to any other salt, unless something goes whack with this salt....

- Elmo

 

[Beckmola24]

The only reason I used Oceanic salt is becasue it was the "new" big thing when I first started saltwater. I did battle algae for months so I'm going to switch salts with my new tank. I might try the tropic marine pro. Still really haven't decided. Thanks for the reading! I really want to read up on as much as possible before I get my tank underway. Thanks!

 

[ROWAUSA]

The only reason I used Oceanic salt is becasue it was the "new" big thing when I first started saltwater. I did battle algae for months so I'm going to switch salts with my new tank. I might try the tropic marine pro. Still really haven't decided. Thanks for the reading! I really want to read up on as much as possible before I get my tank underway. Thanks!

why do you feel the Oceanic Salt had something to do with your algae problem?

 

[wrightme43]

Just as a interesting experiment. I put a 4" rena micro bubbler with a two outlet pump in a simple plastic tube to make a quick and dirty skimmer in a fresh 30 gallon batch of I.O. Salt. It was made with 0 tds rodi water. It tested 0 nitrates just as a check. The (skimmer) (not really just a test) pulled out a big wad of brown junk in 3 hours. Any ideas on why this happened? It was in a rubbermaid brute 44 gallon trash can. The water was fresh from my other 44 gallon brute, kept dark and was less than one day old. The mixing can was clean, the skimmer (lol) was clean. The micro bubbler was new. The air pump is used but clean. I got some 4 inch acrylic for my diy skimmer idea, and that is for another post. Just wondered what you all though it was skimming out of fresh saltwater. Any Ideas? Steve

 

[NaH2O]

RowaUSA - I can't speak for Becky - but I switched because I wanted to see if the Oceanic contributed to my hair algae. After speaking with a few people that I knew used Oceanic salt - I found something interesting. A friend of mine had really bad cyano problems after using oceanic, which seemed to worsen with each weekly water change. He decided not to use Oceanic anymore and the cyano cleared up (on a really large system, and a small one). There is another hobbyist I know, that experienced cyano, as well. I did some reading on Reef Central and noticed similar issues - either hair algae or cyano. I've never been one to say a salt is the cause of an algae problem, but in my case I have noticed a die back in the algae since switching to a different salt. I am not saying the Oceanic was definately the cause for me, but may have had a minor contribution.

Steve - I don't know for sure, but maybe the impurities found in the salt mix were getting skimmed out.

 

[Beckmola24]

I spoke with one of the people that work at mt LFS and I mentioned that I had been reading on a few forums about Oceanic causing algae problems. He said that there were quite a few people that had come into the store with the similar problems. I don't overfeed. I battled hair algae for months and my tank looked awful. At one point I actually took all of the rock out and scrubbed it clean. That didn't work. I was running a skimmer rated for 60 gallons on my 20g and I had a HOB filter running rowaphos and carbon. I did constant water changes and I still couldn't get rid of the algae. It actually got continually worse. The tank is no longer set up so I can't say how it's doing now... Now I know many other factors could've contributed to it, but with so many people complaining about algae problems related to Oceanic salt I decided to try a different brand. I bout Tropic Marine Pro yesterday and I will see if I have any problems with it. Thanks for all of the responses!

 

[plack]

If I am reading this right these chemical composition in ppb are not reading the same in the 2 different sources (articles) for IO see http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/rs/feature/index.htm look at table 4 aluminum IO in ppm and then compare that to http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2004/feature.htm look at figure #1 aluminum IO in ppb
so how come they are so drastically different either I am not reading this right or thebatches come out different really different in wich case I wonder how accurate and consistent a batch of any brand of salt is ?

 

[ROWAUSA]

I too have read all the threads on problems with Oceanic Salt and can't say I share their problems. I have used Oceanic Salt since before it was available to the general public and have it in over 2 dozen systems without issue. I must say that I only mix it according to Oceanics mix recommendation. 1/2 cup per gallon of water. Now I know there are lots of people out there that do not like the 1.023 SG that Oceanic mixes to, so they up the amount of salt mix to raise the SG to 1.026 or higher. I firmly believe that this is where the trouble begins. This salt is so exact in its make up that it can not be over mixed without potential problems.

I would be interested in knowing of anyone out there is mixing as recommended by Oceanic and still having trouble. I have tested my mixes for Nitrates and phosphates and have found none, so I am at a loss as to why the algae problems are happening. If I can narrow it down to something, I can take this info to Oceanic and see what we can do.

 

[bradreef]

a lot of people have reported problems with oceanic on RC. I personally stopped using it because of the low alk. I think a good mix is half IO and half OCeanic.

 

[ROWAUSA]

a lot of people have reported problems with oceanic on RC. I personally stopped using it because of the low alk. I think a good mix is half IO and half OCeanic.

That is one thing I have not tested in a fresh batch, but I will do it on Monday and let you know the results.

 

[NaH2O]

If I am reading this right these chemical composition in ppb are not reading the same in the 2 different sources (articles) for IO see http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/rs/feature/index.htm look at table 4 aluminum IO in ppm and then compare that to http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2004/feature.htm look at figure #1 aluminum IO in ppb
so how come they are so drastically different either I am not reading this right or thebatches come out different really different in wich case I wonder how accurate and consistent a batch of any brand of salt is ?

ppb will be a much smaller number than ppm. So if I read it right, the first article is showing 6.48 ppm of Al, and the second article isn't showing any in ppb. 6.48ppm would be .000000648 ppb? I think my brain is still asleep. Anyway - you have to also consider the error with the person conducting the test, the sample they used (did they mix up the dry salt to try and get uniform distribution), and whether or not the formulations have changed in the time between the tests. Just some initital thoughts.

Rowa - good thought about the salinity. I do mix my water to S=35 (refractometer) because tank chemistry is based on this. The chemical aspects of Oceanic salt mixed at S=35 were difficult for me to deal with. I was looking at Ca of 550+ and Mg of almost 1600, with really low alk that I could not raise. I don't know much about how the salts get manufactured, but if the phosphates were bound to something, then they wouldn't show up on a test?

 

[plack]

NaH20
I think if I am right somepthing that has 1 ppm then the ppb equivalent would be greater than 1 ppb as there are many millions in a billion. My point was that, how can a salt have 6.48 ppm and have nothing at all in ppb where an equivalent # would be 6.48x10 to the third power or 6,480.00 ppb The research in the articles doesn't seem consistent to my understanding? :shock:

 

[reefer]

I too used IO. I never had cyno problems. About 6 months ago I switched to Oceanic and have had three really bad cyno outbreaks. It may or may not be the salt but it is interesting how many people are having similar problems after using it.

 

[Boomer]

Nikki and Plack

First you guys need to go to Rons' ref Atkinson and Bingman

It is Al in micromoles/ kg, that is a millionth of 1 mole and 1 mole of Al is 27 grams. The A & k report give it as 240 micromoles or 240 / 1,000 = .24 moles x 27 = 6.48ppm

To go from ppm to ppb it is x 1,000, so 6.48 x 1000 = 6480 ppb. So Plack was right in his math 6.48 ppm is tooonnnnns of Al. Things would be dead.

If you look at the other article by TIMOTHY A. HOVANEC, Al is almost 0 on his scale for IO. NSW is 20 ppb

Aluminum (Al) was detected in only two samples NSW-M at a concentration of 20 ppb and one SSS, CSMMB with a level of 10 ppb

I think if I am right some thing that has 1 ppm then the ppb equivalent would be greater than 1 ppb

1 ppm = 1,000 ppb, as 1,000,000 x 1,000 = 1,000,000,000

milimoles x molecular weight = ppm or mg / l
micromoles x molecular weight = pbb or ug / l

 

[NaH2O]

Thanks, Boomer! I was thinking way too much on it (lol - or not thinking at all), and now that you explain it - it makes sense.

 

[Boomer]

Nikki

Something bother me so I went back to look. I think the A & K report has a typo error and that 240 is really suppose to be .240. So Ron would be right if he converted to 6.48 if it was 240 and not .240. .240 = 6.48 ppb

So, I made an error, so I edited it above. It was late at night and I was very sleepy.


Edit
More, another old report on IO shows Al at .006 ppm or 6 ppb and NSW @ .010 ppm or 10 ppb