Disappearing Live Stock

[bigblue141]

I have a silent killer in my tank and there's no evidence of it anywhere.

So far I've had a baggai Cardnial, skunk cleaner, and a green chromi dissappear. I went to my local LFS had my water tested and asked what they thought I had in my tank. First they asked if I heard clicking, which I don't. We kind of ruled out a mantis and the LFS said it was maybe some "bad" bristle wroms. I bought a six line, an arrow crab, and a CBS to hopefully eradicate the problem. I came home this weekend and found my mated pair of "O" clowns, my six line, my CBS, and another Chromi was missing.

I was gone for Saturday and was home Sunday night. There was nothing floating and no remains were noticed in the tank. I even pulled out my sock from my overflow and there was nothing in there either.

The top of my tank is all sealed, so jumping was not an option either. I've gotten up around midnight on monday with a red flashlight to spy on the tank and didn't see anything.

I still have the follow fish that have made it "unscathed":

Kole Tang
Yellow Tang
Skunk cleaner
(2) peppermint shrimp
Lawn Mower Blenny
Scooter Blenny
(6) Chromis
(2) Baggai Cardnials

50+/- Hermits (red & blue legged)
100+/- snails
2 emeralds
1 arrow crab
1 sand sifting star

Any ideas would be very greatful.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[OCDreefer]

The carDnails and chromis more then likely killed each other off (cardnail on cardnial and chromis on chromis), and the sixline might have been picked on to death too, the clowns though make me think there's more going on here to.... Wtih that many crabs a dead fish will vanish fast. Here's a thought, are you sure those are emerald crabs?

 

[returnofsid]

I agree, crabs and snails will make very short work of even a large fish, after it dies.

How long has your tank been set up? What size tank is it? Tell us all you can about your tank and all of it's inhabitants. Give us as many parameter numbers as you can, especially for Ammonia, nitrites, pH, salinity, temperature....etc.

Have all your livestock been purchased from the same store?

I don't think you have a bad bristle worm, or anything else that's killing all your livestock. For some reason, your fish are dying and your clean up crew is doing what comes natural and cleaning up the dead fish, quickly.

 

[Darthv247]

hell the copepods do more work than anything in my tank. ive watched them eat a whole cleaner shrimp in a matter of a few hrs. especially if the corpse is behid the rockwork or its found at night.

 

[bigblue141]

My tank is 48x15x21

I've only had it set up for about 8 weeks now. I bought it off craigslist and only got the live sand. The L/R ~70 lbs was purchased over the following 2 weeks.

Readings are:

Nitrites = 0
Ammonia = 0
Nitrates = 30-40 (the color is inbetween 30-40).
Salinity = 1.023
dkh = 10
PH = 8.3

Kent Sea Salt

All fish have been purchased from the same LFS.

I do water changes every other week in the amount of 10 gallons using RO/DI water and I mix my water and leave a 600 g/ph power head in a 15 gallon bucket for 3 days prior to my water changes.

Thanks for the help, let me know if any other info would be useful.

Thanks again

Ryan

 

[returnofsid]

According to your dimensions, your tank is a 47 gallon tank. I would suggest that it's WAY overstocked, especially for a newly established tank. But even for a mature tank, it's way overstocked.

Here's your stocking list of fish that are still alive:
Kole Tang
Yellow Tang
Skunk cleaner
(2) peppermint shrimp
Lawn Mower Blenny
Scooter Blenny
(6) Chromis
(2) Baggai Cardnials

Your tank isn't large enough to ever house any tang, let alone 2. Combine that with A LOT (10) of other fish, for a total of 12 fish (2 of which get BIG) and it's a disaster waiting to happen. Before the "mysterious" deaths, you had:

Another Benghaii
another Blue Chromis
2 Clown fish and
a 6 Lined Wrasse.

So, you had 17 fish in a 47 gallon tank.
That kind of stocking list would be more appropriate for a 100-150 gallon, or even larger tank.

IMO, that's the cause of so much death in the tank.

Even though you aren't getting any reading for Ammonia or Nitrites, I bet this tank is still cycling. Your Nitrates are very high, but nitrates are generally not toxic to marine fish.

I would try and rehome both of your tangs. At that point, your tank will still probably be overstocked.

 

[alki]

According to your dimensions, your tank is a 47 gallon tank. I would suggest that it's WAY overstocked, especially for a newly established tank. But even for a mature tank, it's way overstocked.

Here's your stocking list of fish that are still alive:
Kole Tang
Yellow Tang
Skunk cleaner
(2) peppermint shrimp
Lawn Mower Blenny
Scooter Blenny
(6) Chromis
(2) Baggai Cardnials

Your tank isn't large enough to ever house any tang, let alone 2. Combine that with A LOT (10) of other fish, for a total of 12 fish (2 of which get BIG) and it's a disaster waiting to happen. Before the "mysterious" deaths, you had:

Another Benghaii
another Blue Chromis
2 Clown fish and
a 6 Lined Wrasse.

So, you had 17 fish in a 47 gallon tank.
That kind of stocking list would be more appropriate for a 100-150 gallon, or even larger tank.

IMO, that's the cause of so much death in the tank.

Even though you aren't getting any reading for Ammonia or Nitrites, I bet this tank is still cycling. Your Nitrates are very high, but nitrates are generally not toxic to marine fish.

I would try and rehome both of your tangs. At that point, your tank will still probably be overstocked.

What he said. I have a 45 gal and max I would ever have 6 fish.

 

[burning2nd]

better observation?

I know its hard to catch the moment, but an eye ever 6 to 8 hours.. will help.


whats your water peramters like after all this?

whats still liveing and whats the longest livening inhabitant

 

[bigblue141]

My Living Live Stock are as follows:

Yellow Tang (5 weeks)
Kole Tang (5 weeks)
Cardnial (5 weeks)
6 Chromis (Tiny) (3 - 8 weeks 3 - 2 weeks)
Lawn Mower Blenny (6 weeks)
Scooter Blenny (4 weeks)

Skunk (6 weeks)
2 Emerald (6 weeks)
Arrow Crab (4 weeks)
Moon Crab??? (My picture) (7 weeks)
Sand Sifting Starfish (8 weeks)
Various tiny red & blue hermits.

As far as the tank goes, It's bigger than a 55 (48x12 3/4x18) and it's bigger than a 60 (48x12 3/4x21) but smaller than a 75 (48x18x21) so I'm guessing the tank is between a 60 and a 75 gallon tank. I've been looking for a new tank with built in internal overflows with the same foot print as my current tank (48x15x21) and have had no luck finding one.

All of my parameters in my tank are steady from above. I take my water in on Tuesdays and Fridays to get tested at my LFS.

Thank you everybody that's been helping. Yesterday I did notice that there's a lot of burrows on the back side of my tank that have appeared. To my knowledge none of the animals I have in the tank that burrow? Any ideas out there on that one?

 

[polydactyl]

does that crab you have as your avatar happen to also be this tank??? if so he could be the problem. i agree with the overloaded tank idea as well. it could all be boiling down to stress related issues, once a fish is compromised it won't take much to send him to the big ocean in the sky if you get my drift....


addendum: sorry i just read that the "moon crab" IS your avatar....i would be willing to bet money (which i'm not one to do) that he is the main culprit. i'll bet if you take him out, alot of the livestock disappearences will stop at such a high rate.

 

[returnofsid]

The dimensions you gave, for your tank, were 48X15X21. To calculate tank capacity, you multiply these 3 together, and divide by 231. So, 48X15X21=15120. 15120/=65.45. Sorry, I'd mistakenly divided by 321 instead of 231. So, your tank is 65 gallons. Still way too small for your current livestock.

 

[Myteemouse]

I think it is the moon crab as well here is a link that you should read
http://www.wildsingapore.com/chekjawa/text/g323.htm

 

[bigblue141]

I wanted to thank everybody for their inputs. My livestock has seemed to quit disappearing. Perhaps it was just a bad batch of fish. Now if I could just get my hermits to quit cannabalizing each other...

 

[Herefishyfishy]

No secret killer and no big mysteries here.
Tank been up 8 weeks and had tangs, etc for 5 weeks? Means put large fish into a tank still cycling.
You jumped the gun big time on waiting for it to cycle.
Regardless of any test, your water is what is killing fish.
If fish died in any under-mature tank, the ammonia would spike along with nitrates. If tests are saying zero, then the tests are worthless.

I would loan most fish to any friend while the tank cycles another 4+ weeks or keep doing Massive water changes and hope for the best.

 

[steven11]

Mike, your always so positive!

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Steven you are right, should have lightened up some but hate seeing pet stores set up new hobbiests for a loss just to pocket some fast cash. Ryan comes across as a nice guy and it's annoying to see him get set up and then lied to.

Ryan, hang in there, this is the hardest part. It only gets better. Once the tank matures, you will be amazed how much daily pleasure it can bring.

 

[returnofsid]

Mike, your always so positive!

Positive that there's no mystery killer, other than too many fish, in too new of a tank.

Ryan, as Mike said, hang in there. We'll get it figured out and once your tank and inhabitants have settled in, you'll love it!! Re-Home some, actually, a lot of your fish, and take it slow.

 

[steven11]

Ryan - Mike really means well!

On another note, I dont agree with sid on you having too many fish. Just a number doesnt tell the whole story. Though the tangs may need a new home soon. Dont tell anyone but i had two tangs and about 20 or so other fish in my 75 for over two years with no problems. May not be the norm and there are more problems that can arise. I believe a big key was that my tank was very mature and had large fuge setup.

The begining is always the hardest part. Do take it slow to avoid getting discouraged.

 

[Darthv247]

large fuge = not a 75 gallon system

 

[steven11]

never said it was a 75 gallon system. fuge was only about 30 gallons. the configuration and contents were what made it work.