Discussion of th Week ~ Phosphates~

[4DTEK]

Tropic Marin = extremely high content


Mike

Just got my bucket of Tropic Marin Pro today. The advertising on the bucket says "Guarenteed Nitrate & Phosphate Free" , so does an old bucket of Tropic Marin (not Pro). So what's the deal? Are they saying no inorganic phosphates or no organic phosphates? Whats is a consumer to do? :doubt:

 

[mojoreef]

Hey 4 dtek, I am not sure if TM has changed their formulation since the testing. As a general note most salt mixes contain universal binders, which will bind up any free P or N or even metals, these components will stay bound up until the bacteria breaks the bond and fixes the components to their own matrix. Once their the products become organic in form. This allows a manufacture to make claims of P and N and metal free. Now I am not sure if TM is doing it, but logic would dictate.
When looking at salt mixes on a whole their is NO perfect salt, they all contain metals and impurities and either have N or P inorganically in them (bound by binders or not) so as a consumer its a pick your poison. Here is the way I approach making a choice. Check the data on the testing, look for the salt mix that has the least amount of large anomalies. Example would be Coralife and its lithium concentration. Once you have done that then it usually becomes a choice between higher N or P. Personally I choose N as with the bacteria in our tanks it is setup easier to take care of N then P. As per metals, they all have them a higher then NSW levels, so if you use ASM then you don't have a big choice. Personally again I don't believe them to be a big problem in a reef tank as the action of bacteria, chelatons and ligands bind up the metals very quickly from the universal binders in the mix its self. Then the last thing is kind of a general hobbist thing, I look to see if their is an amount of folks that have had problems with the mix.

Anyway thats just the personal way I do it. here is an updated link for that study.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030608...om/fish2/aqfm/1999/mar/features/1/default.asp


Mike

 

[4DTEK]

Mike thanks for the reply and newer/updated link to the salt tests.

 

[HumblePie]

First and foremost, thanks!

I have had a very long running problem (for a couple months now) that I could not pinpoint the source of. I am now leaning toward the sand bed as the source of it.

If I can prove that this is, indeed the source of the problem, can anyone point me to an article, etc. which might help me decide the best way to remove it...

For more information about the issue I am fighting, please see the following post. My apologies for linking to another board but I don't want to replicate the post.
Macro algae problem...

 

[sryder]

as i resd this thread i see people ready to tear apart their sand beds to remove the phosphates. would it be a better idea to introduce more reef safe sand sifters to the aquarium to remove the detritus and phosphates along with it?
steve

 

[mojoreef]

Sryder sand sifters will aet the detritus and waste (which holds the P) but the problem with them is that they really dont export it. they basically comsume it and poop out 90% of it. So thier is a net gain but algae is pretty johnny on the spot with available P. For folks that have DSB and suspect it is the sand that is leaching a simple test would be to do a P test of the pore water in the top layer of the bed.
Thier are also ways to help the dsb and extend its life for a while, A gentle stir of the top one inch while syphoning off the detritus that comes out can help the bed deal with the excess that is in thier.

One of the main problems with DSB's, beyond what is mentioned in this thread is the general knowledge on how to set one up properly, set up and maintained to last longer. Curing LR in a dsb knocks alot of time off its life span, relying on biological methods alone to deal with the detritus and waste is a loosing battle from what I have seen since they cam on the scene. To large of a bioload also greatly reduces thier life also.


Mike

 

[sryder]

hey mojo, glad to meet you. i just got back into the hobby after at least a ten year layoff so the dsb is all somewhat new to me. from what im hearing im considerering keeping my reef, at least most of it under the live rock a barebottom. maybe set up a fuge with a deep sand bed for the biological benefits and if it ever goes south per say with phosphates it could be a little easier to clean or remove. wouldnt that leave the main tank a little easier to control the detritus through water movement and mechanical filtration?