Discussion on Controllers

[returnofsid]

Controllers!!??!!??

We've all heard of them.
Some of us know a bit about them and use them.
Some of us know a bit about them and don't use them.
Some of us know very little about them and would like to learn more about them.

I fall into the later category....lol.

Some control a single piece of equipment.
Some are capable of controlling every piece of equipment in our reef tanks.
Some are even capable of controlling and monitoring everything AND allowing us access to our tanks, even when we're on vacation, half way around the world.

There's so many different options that it can be very confusing for...well, I'm already confused, and haven't done as much research as I'd like to have!

So, let's discuss and educate one another.

I'd like to have everyone's opinions on controllers.

What types are available?
What do they do?
Why should we use them?
Why should we NOT use them?
What do all the acronyms and abreviations mean?

Who wants to start? Not me, cuz I'm clueless....lol.

 

[mojoreef]

OK I'll bite. I have the Neptune aquacontroller and have had one on virtually ecry tank I have had since they came out. To be honest I think I could run my tank with out it. It pretty controls everything thats one the tank.

 

[Myteemouse]

I use one RKlite just for temp control.
I would use another but must be another controller. I dont belive in putting all my eggs in one basket o to speak.

 

[mojoreef]

Mytee Mine has been running for about 8 years?? I believe i dont really see an issue with running them. The versatility is unreal, you can do almost anything with them. Has their been some kind of failure recently??

 

[rainydave]

I've been running a RKLite for about a year. I use it to control everything on my tank except for the lights (They have a built in timer).

 

[Krish]

No controllers here. Most I ever use is a simple timer to turn on/off fans and lights and that's it. Never actually looked into one. Guess it would be a bit overkill for me on this nano I'm setting up. Guess I'll be sticking to "old fashion" methods for now.

 

[mcoomer]

I've got a Digital Aquatics Reef Keeper Elite and really like all the things that it does for me. I use it to time my VHO and MH lighting, it controls the heater, controls the dosers, sets standby timers for feeding, water changes, and other maintenance, and monitors pH, temp, and salinity (not so much on the salinity right now...grrr). It will also control and monitor a second tank through one of their hub modules. Finally, the system allows me to monitor my tank via the net (see my sig). Last December I was able to peek in on my tank while on vacation in Thailand. If I see a problem I can call home and have someone check it out and if the system loses power I get an email letting my know that it's down. Awesome to have some peace of mind. They've also got a beta software release out there that will allow you to change your system setup over the net. I've been waiting for the final release before upgrading but it will be nice to be able to work in the system from a remote PC rather than having to be at the control head.

Now the bad news. I bought my system about this time last year with an SL2 module and salinity probe. The salinity probe started going south just after I set it up and later DA announced that they were having serious problems with the probes. I sent mine in for warranty replacement and hope to have one sometime before the next millennium. DA has fallen behind the curve on this and for systems that can cost upwards of $800 if you buy a really tricked out setup I would expect better from the customer service side. Still, they've promised that they're going to get this squared away and if they can I'll be happy. Plus it's nice to know that I'm supporting a local company (Woodenville).

If/when they get the salinity probes squared away and get the software released I'll give them two thumbs up. Right now I'd say they get one up and one to the side. Good system but could be better.

Mike

 

[mojoreef]

Salinity Probes?? I looked on the site but it doesnt really give alot of depth on how it works. Is it the same X10 idea??

 

[jrgilles]

I'm running a neptune apex and love it. Great being able to check things and turn pumps on and off when out of town. Just had a small pH spike over the holidays. Going to move all my plugs to the controller now (even the ones that are always on) so I can do anything remotely (aka, kill the return pump, shut off ATO/Kalk, etc.)

Think I might put a camera on the tank too. Have been looking at some that you can just plug stand alone into ethernet, and can move it around remotely. Would have let me peak in my sump to see if my ATO was malfunctioning (which is wasn't)

Anyway, love the apex and remote access/control.

 

[Frankie]

Haven't used any controllers yet other then like Krish. I use a pinpoint PH monitor but never truly trusted it and did regular manual testing.
I will be using this in my new build to control the lights and fans

 

[mojoreef]

Yea I believe it really has to do with the complexity of your over all system. I remember the days I used to run timers like that, lol a long time ago. I run the aquacontroller pro. For me it controls everything.

For me its the nature of the way it does command structure that impresses me. From the simple time on time off to the more complex. If ph hits X then turn off the calcium reactor and turn on the kalk reactor and so on. pretty much endless when it comes to safety.

Mojo

 

[mcoomer]

Salinity Probes?? I looked on the site but it doesnt really give alot of depth on how it works. Is it the same X10 idea??

If I'm wrong someone please correct me but I believe that the probes all work on conductivity. The controllers convert that conductivity to a specific gravity. Unfortunately, the RKE doesn't use a BNC type connector on the salinity probe so I can't just buy a American Marine Pinpoint probe and call it good.

Mike

 

[kenargo]

I've been using Neptune equipment sonce the beginning of controllers (over 13 years) and have never been dissapointed at my decision and in fact the controller has saved my tank on more occasions than I can count. With the release of the Apex a bit over a -1/2 years ago I upgraded my main tank to the controller and with the Apex I can do more things than before (not because of the controller itself but due to the limitation of the number of devices supported). The Apex removed that and I'm controlling over 40 things and yes, that sounde like a lot but I also now include vent fans, RO reserve, salt reserve, tank AND salt reserve conductivity, wave patterns (Tunze control), CA reactor, feed modes, room temp and humidity and many more!

A good reference for what I'm doing and something that might give you some ideas on the potential are on my website (kenargo.com); have a scan of the Apex page; that is my running Apex program and you should be able to tell what is happening; the program language is pretty readable even without having prior experience.

If you have specific questions I would be glad to help and I can guarantee you would be happy with the Apex.

Ken

 

[mojoreef]

If I'm wrong someone please correct me but I believe that the probes all work on conductivity

Yea that is correct I just wanted to make sure their was no weird thing going on, lol

Yea Ken I do agree the aquacontroller has been very reliable. I have had to change the interface module a couple of times but their fairly cheap. Is the Apex the plugsin?? I just rewired my regular plugs with x10 recipticles and it controls all.

Mojo

 

[TheKraken]

If you have specific questions I would be glad to help and I can guarantee you would be happy with the Apex.Ken

I am rocking a used AC Jr with a DC and could not be happier. Everything plugs into one place which is great for cord management. While I have always run a timer or two for lights they tend to drift and DST is always and adventure.

My question for ken is that you show the output in Amps for the switched outlets. Is this a built in feature? If so, I might have found a reason to upgrade. i would also like to do a LED moonlight on a dimmer. It looks like the AC JR can run an X10 lamp dimmer but if this is handles in the APEX native that would be nice. Nice to know the company is local too.

-Paul

 

[NWDiver]

TheKraken> Yep, amp meter built in, it even gives you a nice graph showing use through the day\week. I don't know about the dimmer, Kenargo would though, his system is amazing.

I use the Neptune Apex. I have it setup to control the lights, feeding, ATO, heater, and dosing pumps. I have many parameters set to alert me via text and e-mail if they get out of whack. The largest factor that sent me to Neptune over RKE was the ability to change settings while away from my system. If for instance my pH was rising and I got an alert, I could kill the dosing pump remotely.
What little programing you have to do is dead simple, and there are many folk like Kenargo that can quickly get you on the right path.
Very happy with the controller so far.

-Todd

 

[kenargo]

Yea that is correct I just wanted to make sure their was no weird thing going on, lol

Yea Ken I do agree the aquacontroller has been very reliable. I have had to change the interface module a couple of times but their fairly cheap. Is the Apex the plugsin?? I just rewired my regular plugs with x10 recipticles and it controls all.

Mojo

The Apex is a base + modules connected using an AquaBus. AquaBus is an industrial communications bus system. There are a number of base comfigurations but adding additional modules is as simple as connecting into the AquaBus (e.g., if you want to run an additional tank, add more display units; add more control capabilities, more probes, etc).

 

[kenargo]

I'll tell you what I'll do...

I have a test Apex that you can play with; I keep it around for developing software utilities for the public(see kenargo.com). For the next week or so I won't be using the Apex for anything so I'll send you connection information if you PM me and you can see the controller for yourself.

 

[DolphinLVR]

How accurate are the probes?

 

[kenargo]

How accurate are the probes?

Probes are as accurate as your calibration and as well as you maintain them (frequent cleaning and calibration == more accurate readings).

The temperature probe comes factory calibrated to a NIST standard and is very accurate; ORP, unless you plan to use O3 doesn't really need to be calibrated as the relative value is all the information you need and PH once calibrated is accurate for some time; same for conductivity.

I suspect the accuracy of PH, ORP and Cond is pretty much the same across all controllers; temperature maybe slightly different due to electronics between the different units but not so much I suspect. That said however and something specific to the Apex is that the probes are galvanically (sp) isolated (fancy word but it means ther 1 probe cannot interfere with another probe). In most controllers (including the older Neptune ones) you wanted the PH and ORP to be about 6-8" apart but with this type of isolation that is no longer the case. I know; very minor different but it all goes towards the engineering of the Apex which I believe is the newest of all existing controllers (in terms of CPU, memory, etc). Yes, it does sound a little bit of sales talk but being an old hardware engineer I'm into things like that.

Something else maybe not yet mentioned is that the Apex comes with (part of the base unit) a net connection and web server with full ability to read status, manual override controls and program the unit. Compared to the RK units the same is not true. Also; updates; the Apex is updated using this Ethernet connection and modules are updated from the base unit over the AquaBus (my understanding of the RK unit is that update is done using a PC connected to the RK using USB). Yes, another one of those little things but when it means the difference of partially unwiring your controller to update vs using your home network I thought it worth mention.