DIY Dosing 2 Part

[Wonder]

Need some help/advise as i know nuts about chemical.

I'm having precipitation lately due to dosing. Apprantly, thick white wall is building up near to dosing KH area even at very high flow area (thinner white powder in also seen esle where in skimmer AP902 and tank wall)

Food Grade from local supplier to food industry
Using Soda Ash - (KH) and Calcium Choride - (CA)

base on Randy's part 2 receipe

Kh 7-8 (unable to push it higher even with extra dosing) Salifert
CA 380 Salifert
Ph 8.3-8.45 (Using Aquatronica and also a Ph pen to test)
Mg 1300 Salifert
PO4 undetectable using salifert

I have 0.5 litre of Rowaphos in Fluidized reactor but i can see them clog up within 3-4days (maybe due to Ph level) each time i change

I certianly like to give my last try before going back to my Calcium reactor becuase my friend is using the same thing but without any issue

Any idea what could be the most likely reason to have such precipitation


Meanwhile, just being curious to know if i can mix the soda ash (food grade) in higher concentration than Randy's two part (recipe 1) - 3 times more. Will the solution precipitate ?

- My idea was to store 5 gal of highly concentrate solution in my store room. Then prepare another container to dilute the solution back to Randy's concentration by adding DI water before dosing. This will allow me to have the solution use for almost 8mths or so

Many thanks

 

[Boomer]

Lets start here

I'm having precipitation lately due to dosing. Apprantly, thick white wall is building up near to dosing KH area even at very high flow area (thinner white powder in also seen esle where in skimmer AP902 and tank wall)

Why are you using soda ash and not baking soda, as this may stop your problem ? Are you dosing the two ( KH and CA) in the same area at the same time. ? How small is this area it is being dosed in ? You are getting build up as the kH and pH are to high in that local area or...........see below

just being curious to know if i can mix the soda ash (food grade) in higher concentration than Randy's two part

No not really, as you are already at or near 100 % saturation. Are you using warm water and stirring it when you are making the solution ?

Based on your remarks and not being able to get it up and the Mg++ being normal, I would try to do a couple of large water changes. Your system seems to be out of ionic balance, which also causes your problems.

 

[Wonder]

Why are you using soda ash and not baking soda, as this may stop your problem ? Are you dosing the two ( KH and CA) in the same area at the same time. ? How small is this area it is being dosed in ? You are getting build up as the kH and pH are to high in that local area or...........see below

--> Isn't soda ash same as baked soda ? I don't know much about this and was suggested by my buddy that it can be replaced. If this is the reason, i'll certainly wants to change back to baking soda.
KH and CA is dose at different time and very far apart.
Dosing KH is directly just above my Vortech pump at max speed.
I can see the powder solution being dissolve immediately into the pump propeller


No not really, as you are already at or near 100 % saturation. Are you using warm water and stirring it when you are making the solution ?

Based on your remarks and not being able to get it up and the Mg++ being normal, I would try to do a couple of large water changes. Your system seems to be out of ionic balance, which also causes your problems.

I mix in 29oC DI water and it will turn warm (estimate 60-70oC while mixing/stirring)
I'll have done 20% water change once and the problem still comes back after a week.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Boomer]

Yes, baked baking soda is almost the same as soda ash. I asked about using just baking soda, not baked, which is Randy's other recipe. Baking soda does not yield the high Alk and pH as baked baking soda/ soda ash. In normal reef tanks, with pH's in the 7.8 - 8.1 range and low Alk you use soda ash. If the tank is in the higher pH range, like 8.2-8.4 and higher Alk then you use baking soda.

I'll have done 20% water change once and the problem still comes back after a week

That is or may not be enough. I mean like 2 - 50 % ( or larger) water changes a day apart. What other sup's or additives are you using and who's salt are you using. It looks like it is IO.

I can see the powder solution being dissolve immediately into the pump propeller

What do you mean by that ? You dissolve the powder in RO/DI water as given in Randy's recipe and ALL the powder has been dissolved ? You should see no powder in the solution at all. If there is you have added to much soda ash .

Using Soda Ash - (KH).............I mix in 29oC DI water and it will turn warm (estimate 60-70oC while mixing/stirring)

No it won't heat up the water as soda ash is not exothermic and does not generate heat when mixed in water. You sound like you are *** NOT using soda ash but CAUSTIC SODA, which is not the same thing by a long shot and it is very exothermic and will heat up water. That is one of the dangerous of caustic soda. It is often called sodium hydroxide which is NaOH and not Na2CO3, which is soda ash. What does that bottle or container say on it EXACTLY. This I believe is your problem, as it is many times more powerful than baking soda or soda ash when it comes to pH and Alk. It has a pH of 14 at sat.

 

[teo]

Hi, I read somewhere that Sodium Carbonate behaves a bit strange when dissolving depending if it is Anhydrous, monohydrate heptahydrate or decahydrate.
If what you get is Anhydrous or Monohydrate (which is what I think you got) it will start dissolving and when doing so it will heat up, after that, further aditions will take heat up from the water to form precipitate (Clumps) of hepta and decahydrate which with further mixing will dissolve.
The higer solubility is reached at around 96*F Higher or lower temperature will lower solubility.

 

[Boomer]

If what you get is Anhydrous or Monohydrate (which is what I think you got) it will start dissolving and when doing so it will heat up, after that, further aditions will take heat up from the water to form precipitate (Clumps) of hepta and decahydrate which with further mixing will dissolve

Yes, you are 100 % right more or less and my error From my mixing it in small amounts with larger water vols you don't see or notice this. You would think with it being exo there would be something on its MSDS as there is for caustic soda

Anhydrous

Yes, that is what he would have. However, even though it is exothermic I find it hard to believe it heats the water up form 30 C from 70 C.

Here is a good review of it

http://www.genchem.com/pdf/SodaAshTech.pdf

 

[Wonder]

What do you mean by that ? You dissolve the powder in RO/DI water as given in Randy's recipe and ALL the powder has been dissolved ? You should see no powder in the solution at all. If there is you have added to much soda ash .

All Powder fully dissolved after mix in 8 gal contianer. I dose at a location above the pump. the concentrated solution drip into the water and do looks like thick solution(cloudiness) but was quickly disappear into the pump

I actually started with recipe 1 and change it to recipe 2 after discovering the precipitation.

Recipe 2
Dosing KH from 12am - 10am 750ml (aquatronica dosing pump that it automatically split into smaller dose )
CA from 12pm to 6 pm 650ml (same)
Mg from 10pm to 12am 200ml

I find it hard to believe it heats the water up form 30 C from 70 Cb]

i did not really measure the temp but i can feel it is like 50-70C or so using my hand. i might be wrong on the actual temp but is really warm


------
i seriously believe it is due to ionic imbalance but just don't know why since i control the full day ph at max 8.5 and measure parameter everyday.

I have decided to use back my Calcium Reactor with just 10-20 % employing dosing to keep the PH constant

 

[Boomer]

ionic imbalance

This is usually caused by one or both of two things. Adding additives with few or little WC or adding to many different varieties of sup to correct problems. A third, is having low levels, like Ca++ or Mg++ and you continuously add just small amounts. For example, if your tank, even after a WC, was 360 ppm Ca++ you should raise the levels over say two days or say 50 ppm /day and not 10 ppm day over a few days. Usually, with issues like yours a couple of lager WC solves the problem. Before you add Ca++, Mg++ or Alk sup to the tank, on a daily bases, the tank should already be at the level you want to keep.

 

[Wonder]

ionic imbalance

This is usually caused by one or both of two things. Adding additives with few or little WC or adding to many different varieties of sup to correct problems. A third, is having low levels, like Ca++ or Mg++ and you continuously add just small amounts. For example, if your tank, even after a WC, was 360 ppm Ca++ you should raise the levels over say two days or say 50 ppm /day and not 10 ppm day over a few days. Usually, with issues like yours a couple of lager WC solves the problem. Before you add Ca++, Mg++ or Alk sup to the tank, on a daily bases, the tank should already be at the level you want to keep.

Thanks and will be more diligient doing frequent water change if i'll ever start 100% dosing again. Looks like i can't escape the weekly water change if dosing big time

 

[Boomer]

OK keep in touch.