Does your lighting system produce glitter lines?

[vasubandu]

Since the first time I saw an aquarium with halide lighting, I have been obsessed with getting just the right dancing lights. After going all the way up to 3 400 watt halides, I have been learning about LED lights and putting together a series of LED systems. I have also made friends with a number of people who manufacture LED lights and are interested in serving the aquarium community.

Properly done, a small number of LED lights can produce glitter lines in a VHO system. It is the only thing I have seen that can replace halides. Before trying to produce a product, these people want to know how big the market would be. So I am asking, are there many people who do not have halides or some other source that produces glitter lines?

A related question is what configuration people would want in an LED fixture. Most of those on the market are strips. I have suggested that they make square grids ten inches on a side with 81 LEDs. The light color would depend on the combination of lights. Bear in mind that LEDs are directional and have a relatively narrow beam.

If anyone has their own answer or can answer for the hobby as a whole, that would be great.

 

[jag3534]

LED fixtures are becoming more popular in the industy as we speak, from what i have read about them, they are the closest product to halides as far as creating the "glitter" effect. Though costs are still high on these fixtures, they are eliminating the need of chillers due to heat given off from the lamps, and also have a very long bulb life, claiming 50000hr bulb life. Reducing the amount of bulb replacements that we all do with our flourescents and halides tremendously. Only the test of time will prove that! So to answer your question, is there a market? If LED technology can prove to be more cost effective, produce the same spectral quality of products on the market today, and produce that beautiful "glitter" effect...people will buy them!
As far as how the bulbs are configured in the fixture...and being that they produce a very tight light pattern, I would say making a fixture big enough with enough LEDs to cover all the water area is a must (if LED is the only type of lamp being used on a particular tank.) That or make them into patterns that can highlight particular areas of a tank, and them supplement them with other fixtures that give off more of a broad light pattern.

 

[ajnweb]

I currently run a Nova Extreme Pro 20" T-5 light sytem with a white 4 light Powerbrite LED and a blue 4 light Powerbrite LED to give me that shimmereing effect. I would love to see a system that incorperates T-5's with the shimmering effect of LEDs. Because of the width of the Fixture, I have the Powerbrites mounted one on the front and one on the back at an angle pointed towards the center of the tank. Good Luck on your project!

 

[oldsaint]

I have also made friends with a number of people who manufacture LED lights and are interested in serving the aquarium community.

You might want to direct them to this thread.
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42211&highlight=lighting

 

[DonW]

With the recent litigation going on with led lighting I would be very hesitant to even buy a led light other than a moon light. Until the legal issues are resolved it going to be hard for a company to convince people that they will be alive long enough to warranty led lighting.

Don

 

[jag3534]

Don, im curious, can you elaborate a little on the litigation regarding LEDs?

 

[vasubandu]

I can. I had not heard of the litigation until today, but I am an attorney and I was able to piece a lot of the story together today from public records. It is a sad and outrageous story.

Orbital Technologies Corporation (www.orbitec.com) is a Wisconsin company that primarily does does aerospace related work for the government. It has been doing work with LED lighting for some time. It owns a large number of patents, which it either develops or purchases. I am not a patent attorney, so this explanation may not be entirely correct in its details.

In 2007, Orbital obtained a patent on "a method and apparatus of lighting a marine habitat for growth utilizing an LED light system." A use or method patent is a parent on a way of doing something. The most common type is a business method patent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_method_patent. Others include patents on the use of natural chemicals to treat illnesses and the like. These kinds of patents have become controversial because patents have been granted for what seem to be unoriginal ideas. The person who obtains the patent then usually sues for patent infringement as a way of demanding royalties from anyone who uses the idea. For example. if I could get a patent on the use of acrylic boxes to contain water for the purpose of maintaining aquatic pets, then I could sue CFI to stop it from making aquariums unless it agreed to pay me a royalty for each aquarium it built. Some of the use patents that have been granted are as absurd as this.

Somehow, PFO got into a fight with Orbital over its patent. Unfortunately, all of the interesting pleadings in the case are sealed, so the details are not clear. The lawsuit is a real David and Goliath story. Orbital is represented by Dorsey & Whitney, a huge international law firm. PFO is represented by Foley & Lardner, which is another mega firm. Firms like that are incredibly expensive and make litigation incredibly expensive for their opponents.

It looks like both Orbital and PFO brought motions to have the other side's claims dismissed, but the motions are sealed. On March 19, 2009, before those motions were decided, PFO filed for bankruptcy. PFO filed under Chapter 7, which means that it plans to go out of business, not reorganize. The Bankruptcy filing states that PFO owes its attorneys $424,000.

The bankruptcy stops the patent litigation for the time being. What happens from here depends on whether PFO decides to complete the bankruptcy. It is very hard to save a business after filing for Chapter 7 bankruptcy, so I would not hold out much hope that PFO will ever open its doors again.

All of this results from the use patent that Orbital obtained for using LED lights in marine habitats. My patent attorney friends are skeptical that the patent would withstand a challenge, but that process is lengthy and expensive. And Orbital has the resources to make it even more difficult.

As I read the patent, it applies only to LED lighting that is the sole source of light and that includes controls for the spectrum, intensity and "spatial" qualities of the light. It does not appear that a simply fixture that turns on and off would be covered, but I am not sure about that.

This whole thing makes me furious beyond words. I don't know anything about PFO or its products, but it seems to have been working to bring LED lighting to aquariums. It was blindsided by a patent that seems absurd and then buried in legal costs until it had to quit. This is everything that is wrong with our legal system neatly wrapped into a single case.

I am trying to get an opinion as to whether the patent would cover an LED light system that does not include controls for spectrum and intensity. If I can get one, I'll post the results. If anyone wants a copy of the patent, PM me.

 

[jag3534]

Thats ashame...what ever happened to go old product competition, whoever builds the better product wins! Thanks for the insight vasubandu

 

[vasubandu]

I agree, but I still wonder how many people would like the halide effect but don't have or want to have halide lights. I spend all day looking at proof that LED lights can produce the halide effect, and not in a small way. Anyone who wants to see it in action is welcome to drop by my office in south Seattle. I just wonder how many people would jump at the chance to add this effect to a T5 or VHO lighting system for $100? The patent at issue in the PFO lawsuit expressly did not cover the use of LED lights to supplement lighting or create effects, so it would not be an issue for this use. As best as I can tell. PFO had a problem because it sold an all-LED system that included some sophisticated control options.

 

[DonW]

I think if you could get around the space issue I think its a good idea. I'd probably spend a few bucks for the halide shimmer but it would have to be less than $100. A affordable $75 addon I think would be a good seller until all the fixture makers cought on and started putting them in. I wouldn't forsee any longterm success.

Don