Drilling & Closed Loop?

[Cajun Reefer]

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13588

I was looking over krish's Closed Loop DIY thread...again. I saw that krish was disappointed with the Mag 9.5 for his closed loop diy which raised some questions with me.

I've decided to drill the back of my 90 gallon tank (bottom tempered) for a 29-gallon sump and try a Mag 9.5 for the return. I'm not concerned about a bunch of flow for my sump/refugium. But I am concerned as to whether or not the Mag 9.5 will be too much flow for a sump? I'm confused at to what size hole I should drill the tank, 3/4" or 1" or 1.5"? And how far below the waterline I should drill it? Do you forsee any problems with my sump return coming over the top of the tank? I noticed that krish had some sort of cap on his intake for the closed loop system. What was that for? A clean out access point?

I'm also thinking about doing a closed loop system using a Mag 18 and SCWD Squid with about 4 returns. Do you think there will be some noticeable flow from it? Or will a Mag 18 be a waste? Keep in mind that I am running a sandy bottom, and I get a sandstorm if I run two Seio 1500's that converge in the middle of the front glass. Again what size hole(s) and how many will I need to drill for this closed loop system? I'm assuming 3-4 inches below the waterline would be fine for this one too? I plan on covering the intake with that mod mentioned in DisturbedReefer's thread.
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11349

Sorry...I couldn't figure out how to add a thumbnail photo.

The Mag 9.5 is showing 800 gph @ 4ft; whereas, the Mag 18 is showing 1375 gph @ 4ft. The Mag 18 has 3/4" intake and output openings.

As always, thank you for your help!

 

[The Apprentice]

Hi Dennis I have a All-Glass 75 gallon Tank and I feed 2 each 3/4" sea swirls with a mag drive 18 with no return problems as for flow as my sps has filled the tank up I am supplementing More flow with a Tunze Nano stream.
HTH. Jeff

 

[Cajun Reefer]

Jeff,

What size hole do you have drilled for the intake? And at what height below your waterline? And I'm assuming that you only have one hole drilled for the intake?

Thanks for the help!

 

[The Apprentice]

Dennis I belive the Drill size is 2 5/8" I have a 1 1/2" Bulkhead fitting In the hole. Hope this helps. On a side note It cost me 25$ to have the local glass shop drill but Thats been a while

Jeff,

What size hole do you have drilled for the intake? And at what height below your waterline? And I'm assuming that you only have one hole drilled for the intake?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Krish]

Hey Dennis! The cap for the intake is there to prime the plumbing before starting up the closed loop. All you'd do is take off the cap, fill the plumbing with water and then put the cap back on and start the pump. If the cap wasn't there to allow you to pour in water to fill the pipes, you'd either have a tank full of bubbles, your pump would burn up from not having enough "juice" to suck the water in from the tank etc so that is why you need an access point to fill the pipes with water seeing the pump is not submerged.

As for the mag9.5, I actually used that pump on my other tank (38gal) for my sump return and it worked great! It wasn't that I didn't really like it on the closed loop, but it was just that I had it split into 2 outputs and it was competing against (2) Tunze streams totalling 3450 gph and then a sea-swirl with another 800 or so gph so it didn't really add much and I'd rather not use it than to have the extra heat that I was battling with at the time with my new halides.

As for your hole for the drain, when I had the 38gal cube and the 24 or so gal sump, I had a 1 inch drain coming from my overflow and it was perfectly fine. I however, ran my mag950 through a chiller first before going to the tank so it cut down the flow some, but the 1 inch handled it. In your case, you may be better off with the 1.5 inch bulkhead just to be safe seeing you will be going from the sump straight up to the tank and will be putting out a bit more flow. Will it be too much flow...I don't think so at all. It worked fine for me with a smaller sump and also, if you want less flow, you could always just put a ball valve on the output of the mag950 and adjust the flow from there. It won't affect the overflow/drain any in regards to the overflow then draining more water than what is pumped because the overlfow can only drain what is pumped into the tank and the same speed so you slow the return pump and the drain will slow to match as well. As for how low to put the hole in your tank will all depend on how much plumbing you don't mind seeing in the tank. You will have to put an elbow in the bulkhead and have the plumbing go up as high as you'd want to set the water line in your tank at so just take that into consideration. I have a picture saved on my computer home how Martin did his and I'll try and find it here to post a pic, but if not, I'll post it later


Now...On the mag18, my friend used one for a closed loop on his 75gal and it was nice flow, but he only used one output. The problem with using a SCWD is that they say you lose sometimes 50% of the flow and then thinking of you splitting that will cut the flow down quite a bit so keep that in mind as well. I've never used a SCWD to say whether or not they cut down flow much, but I'd look into that first. If it does cause you to lose about 50% of the flow, then IMO, it won't be worth the effort. If anything, I'd come off of the pump with the most 3 outputs without the SCWD to give each nozzle approximately 600 gph per nozzle which would be nice flow. With a closed loop, you don't lose any head pressure so you'd get the full 1800 gph. HTH's and let me know if I m issed anything

 

[Krish]

Dennis...Look at Finn's post here (post #6) http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17050

 

[Cajun Reefer]

Krish and The Apprentice,

All of it was a big help; however, I'm still at a lost as far as where (height below waterline) I need to drill the holes? I'm scared of breaking or messing up a perfectly good tank so needless to say I'm trying to be very cautious and exact with this plan.

I'm also a little confused with finn's setup.

1. Shouldn't the cap above the T on the back be higher than the water level? Won't water pour out of the hole if the waterlevel is above the hole in the cap? Seems like it could have went higher another 2 inches.
2. I'm having trouble picturing the intake on the left-side of the picture. Is finn's above the waterline inside of the tank? Is it just covered with an intake strainer?

So far, I need to figure out what height I need to drill my tank and put an 1.5" ID bulkhead. I was going to cover that bulkhead with an DIY acrylic overflow box to assist with surface skimming in the aquarium. I was hoping to make one similar to the blue one you (krish75) made for your 75 gal that covered up your CPR overflow prefilter but add some "teeth" to it. Or do I need to make one that goes all the way down to the bottom of my tank? If so, I may try the DIY version of cutting a 6" PVC pipe in half. Once the bulkhead is installed, which way should my 90º go (down, up, or sideways)? Should I put an intake strainer on the end of the 90º?

1. At what height does the bottom, middle, or top of the bulkhead opening have to be in relationship with the waterline?
2. At what height does the intake opening have to be in relationship with the water level?

All of the above pertains to my sump intake. I'm trying to skim the display tank's surface to provide water to my sump where my protein skimmer will be housed. As I understand it, it doesn't really matter where I drill the intake for my closed loop system.

Thank all of you for your time and assistance!

Merry Christmas!

 

[The Apprentice]

"The Apprentice,
All of it was a big help; however, I'm still at a lost as far as where (height below waterline) I need to drill the holes? I'm scared of breaking or messing up a perfectly good tank so needless to say I'm trying to be very cautious and exact with this plan."
I drilled my close loop 2" from the bottom of the tank so I could get more water exchange pulling more water from the bottom and returning it On the top via the sea swirls...Jeff

 

[Krish]

Depending on how you do your overflow, you only really need enough space to allow you to put an elbow and a strainer coming out of the bulkhead. When I get home I can sketch something, but just imagine the strainer sitting at the height you want your tank's water level. If the strainer is sitting 4 inches below the rim of the tank, then that's where your water level will be. If your strainer is 10 inches below the rim of your tank, that's where your water level for the tank will be. The only way water will be above that strainer is if you pump way more water into the tank than the drain can handle and if that is the case, you will run your sump dry. Any water above the strainer will just drain down automatically and when you turn off your return pump, the water will continue to drain until the water level drops right below that strainer. So in any event, you will need to put the bulkhead low enough to where you can add in an elbow and put a strainer on top. If you drill too low, then you'll just have to make up for it with some pipe for the height. Did that make any sense?? Let me know

 

[Krish]

Here's a pic to show you what I mean a bit Dennis (you'll have to maximize the pic to see it better). The cap I think people use to help quiet down the drain from any possible noises. Someone will have to chime in on that to confirm and also possibly to prime the plumbing like you would for a closed loop. The higher the plumbing goes inside the tank for the strainer to sit on, the higher the water level will be, but just imagine what would happen to any water sitting above the strainer. Gravity will only cause it to drain down so you'll have to make sure your plumbing goes as high as you want your water level to be...Then all you'd need is your cover (overflow) to hide the plumbing inside the tank.

 

[Cajun Reefer]

Thanks, guys! That clears everything up! I'm sort of like you krish...I love pics! Pictures are worth a thousand words!

I think that's it until I start trying to make my overflow cover!

Merry Christmas!

 

[Cajun Reefer]

Krish,

How did you attach the thumbnail? I know I saw that somewhere a few weeks ago but can't seem to find the directions now.

 

[Krish]

Cool!! No prob! Have a good Christmas man...

 

[Krish]

Krish,

How did you attach the thumbnail? I know I saw that somewhere a few weeks ago but can't seem to find the directions now.

If you click on (Go advanced) at the bottom of the screen where you post your reply, it will take you to another screen where there, if you scroll down, you'll see a tab (Manage Attachments). Just click on that and it will take you to a page where you can select your files to be attached. Pretty straight forward from there.

 

[Scooterman]

One thing I noticed in the pics & the diagram Krish made up, the top of the stand pipe needs to be about 6" above the waterline or the tank, just thought I'd mention that in case it already was & I missed it!

 

[Krish]

Thanks Scooty...I didn't know that.

 

[Scooterman]

Well any lower water would back into it & out
Also it helps with the air flow, sorta like with the plumbing in your house drains, they must have air. when inside the tank & overflow you can get away with them lower!

 

[Krish]

Cool...I'll have to keep that in mind if I do something in the New Year

 

[Cajun Reefer]

Thanks, Scooter! I figured on doing it that way. I still don't understand how finn doesn't have water coming out unless the cap isn't drilled but I think it was his idea to drill the cap anyway. Whenever I do it, I'm going have the cap extend about 6 inches above the waterline. I just measured and 6 inches above the waterline would be just right. That would put the pipe and cap still a little over an inch below the top of my hood and out of sight.

Thanks, guys!

Here is the inside and the outside.
The pipe in the tee has to go up higher than the water level in the tank and the cap on top needs to have a hole in it to prevent a flushing