DSB in a bucket

[BeanAnimal]

Anthony

We have briefly talked in the past about DSB in a bucket and remote DSBs

I am posting here in hopes of adding to this converstation and getting others involved.

I currently have a 75 mixed reef with a SSB (1" or so). The sump is a custom 50 with some live rock and the regufium is a low flow 20 above the tank. The fuge and sump are BB. The fuge is the home to mostly cheato and a little bit of caulerpa and a lot of mushrooms (red and blue). Fuge is lit by an aqua sun 50/50 or something and a standard cabinent light. Growth is decent.

I do not have a N or P problem but am lazy with regards to water changes. VERY LAZY.

I have (2) 29 gallon tanks lying around and would not mind putting at least one of them to use. Now for your thoughts.

Would you prefer to see the DSB in a bucket or 8" or so in the bottom of the 29? and skip the bucket. Another option would be to use the 29 as a secondary sump or jail and add the bucket anyway. I have a mean domino that lives in the fuge, and wipes out the pod population. I could put him in the 29 with or without the DSB. Even though the DSB is not needed at this time, I imagine it would start to function, esp if the domino lives in it. I am however afraid that it may rob the fuge of nutrients needed for the cheato.

Your thoughts?

 

[Haole]

Mind if I take a stab at this, Bean?
I would predict Anthony to say that either method (tank vs. bucket) will work as long as you maintain adequate flow over the sand bed to prevent settling of debris and detritus that could eventually work its way into the sand. From what I understand, a sand bed that’s set up remotely like you’re suggesting is mainly used for NNR (natural nitrate reduction) so my guess would be that your macro algae’s will probably not be effected since they take up other constituents besides nitrate.

Oh and btw... Welcome to RF!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yes remote DSBs are good at NNR.

The key difference between the 2 setups will be LIGHT and a possible FISH and FLOW.

The FISH feeding and pooping in the 29 DSB, and the fact that the water will be pretty deep, pretty much ensure that there will be a decent amount of detritus that settles. In the bucket, none will. I don't really want to add BOTH, but could. I could go BB in the 29 and just use it as another tank in the system, but would like the bennefit of a DSB to give me a bit of lazy room for water changes as the tank matures.

The macro will stay in the above tank 20... where I will increse the flow and get the cheato tumbling (low flow now and the cheato just floats).

Thanks for your input.

 

[Haole]

No problem... I would also like to know Anthony’s thoughts on this.
Although, I think a bucket would be easier to maintain the proper flow needed above the sand.... Less room, no light, no fish.

 

[BeanAnimal]

That is the way I am leaning also.... but that leaves me with a delima as to what I should do with the 29. I guess BB or SSB just like my display.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

actually... Rob is spot-on. Nearly took the words out of my mouth.

I'd add too that since an oolitic RDSB is principally used for NNR, and since you do not have any significant Nitrate issues... why bother? Unless you expect the bioload to grow considerably?

Sure, we can say/argue that without regular water changes, the nitrates may well accumulate and the rdsb in place will assist. But I fear you will have far greater problems with animal health and water quality beyond accumulating nitrates.

IMO... with or without the rdsb, yu need to appreciate and apply the need for regular water changes. I suggest small weekly ones instead of larger monthly ones.

Without them, I suspect you can expect to be one of the statistics with a fine run of 1-3 years before and awful crash.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I currently do about 15 gallons a month (total 100 gallon water volume). And do expect the bioload to grow as time goes on. I know the DSB in a bucket is always an option of nitrate becomes an issue. I am still considering addition of the 29 for additional volume and another place to put stuff. I will add the DSB to this tank if it will not hurt, but as mentioned I was worried about the flow in this remote tank, as it will likely have a fish or two in it.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

I agree it will not hurt and likely help. Do keep at least enough flow to prevent solids from settling/accumulating.

And do consider more frequent water changes my friend. I promise it will pay great dividends. Perhaps consider my suggestions for automated water changes in the thread of that title name listed in my sticky atop this forum called "Fav links..."

 

[BeanAnimal]

I don't have access to a drain for the constant water change via overflow... I am in the process of designing system using dual peristaltic pumps. (one more thing to add to the never complete automation project).

Thanks for the input. I will let you know how it goes. I may even have the 29 setup and flowing by the Saturday for the store opening in Cranberry.

 

[Haole]

actually... Rob is spot-on. Nearly took the words out of my mouth.

Wow!
I hope my head will still fit through the door when I leave this room! :lol:
I guess after keeping marine aquariums for 20 years, things are beginning to sink in.
But actually it’s because I’ve got a great teacher of “finesse”. Albeit he’s claimed to be a bit on the furry side, he’s still a great teacher!
J/K Anthony

Sorry Bean, but there was no chance in sparing you with your remark about laziness with water changes from a man who’s noted for his key phrase... “The solution to pollution is dilution”. But I’m sure you were already aware of that since you’ve obviously done your homework on plans for the future of your set up, which will certainly be much more elaborate than what I plan to do with mine. I really don’t have the room for a remote sand bed in a bucket in my stand, and my wife would definitely disapprove of it sitting next to the tank no matter how well it could be camouflaged.
Good luck with whatever way you decide to do!

Just out of curiosity, Anthony...
How small could you scale something like this back? In other words, how small of a bucket per say could you use to the point of where it really isn’t worth the effort for it to be a benefit and/or effective in your opinion?

 

[Anthony Calfo]

substrate does not have to be very deep or voluminous to effectively denitrify.

Still.. we must consider the load on the system when trying to hone the size of a RDSB used for NNR.

That all said, most tanks at least have enough room next to (display or sump) or inside of the sump for a 1/2 gallon tall pitcher (like plastic for tea/juice) or a small 1-3 gall plastic pail full of sand. Such small RDSB's I still see as helpful to tanks up to perhaps 75 or 90 gall (presumign no extreme bioload).

Dr. Rob Toonen did some trials on sand at depth and found remarkably shallow beds were able to denitrify (less than 1"). I still favor tall and deep for space savings if not efficiency. FWIW

 

[Haole]

Hmmm, interesting. I may have to kick this idea around a little more.
Thanks Anthony!

 

[jordan]

I'm going to put a 12litre (it's what we use here in Australia) bucket in my sump with about 20cm depth of 2:1 pool dust / 00 crushed marble to give this RDSB a try. Also plumbing in a 37L bin with about 40cm deep sand bed as well. This is only for a 200L tank (about 50 gallons). I have nitrates sitting at 10ppm after a water change which I hope the additions will bring it down to 0.

 

[Tonym10]

I just added a RDSB to my 75g. My tank has been running 2.5 years. In the last six months my nitrates went from 2 to 44. So I did alot of water changes and major cleaning of evrything . I got my nitrates to 4 , then over a few weeks they climbed to 8. So tonight I plumbed in a rdsb, plumbed from my recirc skimmer to a IO sand bucket , then back to sump, very simple to set up. I am also hoping for some help to my PH which is always at 8 to 8.08 but never higher .I will post a pic of my rdsb

 

[Tonym10]

Here are some pics of my rdsb

 

[Anthony Calfo]

thanks to all for continued input and images. Looking forward to seeing more with progress reports

 

[bkulyk]

Hi, I'm still pretty new to some of this stuff and I was thinking about setting up a DSB bucket for the purpose of NNR. The plan was to use 5 gallon bucket and a mix on live and non-live sand. I was just hoping to get a little more advice on how much sand to place in the bucket and how much water should go in the bucket? Also how much flow should be going over the sand? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

this would be the grand-daddy thread... do take the time to read it at length my friend. I cannot imagine that you'll have many questions if any when done:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=595109

you must be registered (its free) to view that section of the forum.

best of luck/life, Anth-

 

[bkulyk]

Thank you so much for your attention and the link you provided. I have read much of it already and I'm finding the imformation very intersting as well as useful.

Thanks agian.

 

[c_omb_o]

Anthony, I'd like your opinion about RDSB. Is the only purpose NNR, or there are other benefits? I have aprox. 0,03 phosphates and almoust zero nitrates.