Dying Foxface?

[Sherman]

My one-spot foxface (siganus unimaculatis, about 4", have had him 8 months) has been becoming noticeably thinner over the last week, or so. However, he's continued to eat like a pig. His favorite food is Spectrum pellets, and he also ravenously attacks mysis. He has never had any interest in nori, even trying many different kinds in many different ways (soaked in garlic, selcon, etc.).

As he's become very thin as of late (I can make out his stomach in the right light), I've become more concerned with his lack of interest in vegetation. He's only showed interest in meaty foods. I tried a couple other options (spirulina and brine, Formula 2 both pellets and flakes, etc.) I've mixed the Spectrum pellets and Formula 2 pellets to "trick" him into eating some veggies, as well. Otherwise, he won't touch anything but Spectrum pellets and mysis.

His typical behavior is active swimming all over the tank. And when it's feeding time, look out! He attacks food quite actively, and eats 3x more than the rest of the tank combined (2 cinnamon clowns, six line wrasse, bicolor blenny). Today, he's holed up behind a rock, with his night-time blotchiness colors showing, and "breathing" heavy. He won't come out even for food. Nothing is visibly any different. There are no signs of anything out of the ordinary, other than the thinness as of late.

Does anyone know of any sorts of intestinal problems these fish are prone to? Anything else internal? With his behavior, I honestly don't expect him to make it through the night, so I'm hoping someone here has some sort of information I've not yet been able to find.

 

[DonW]

I'm not sure at this stage it would do much good. But every time I notice my fish even the tangs looking thin. I feed them chopped oysters. For some reason they all love them and they get real fat quickly.

Don

 

[Scooterman]

Seems like a pm to Steve might help.
I made a mush that had oysters & shrimp they all loved it. My fox ate nori though, may have a bug!

 

[Sherman]

I've had him 8 months, and he's never eaten nori. He'd taste it, and spit it out. However, he mowed through every last shred of bubble algae when I put him in the tank, even on the first day.

Don, I'm sure you understand... "at this point" is relative. I'm willing to inconvenience myself to any level, if it means saving my fish. I'm headed to the grocery store now. Thank you for the idea.

And I'm still all ears, anyone else!

 

[DonW]

I've had him 8 months, and he's never eaten nori. He'd taste it, and spit it out. However, he mowed through every last shred of bubble algae when I put him in the tank, even on the first day.

Don, I'm sure you understand... "at this point" is relative. I'm willing to inconvenience myself to any level, if it means saving my fish. I'm headed to the grocery store now. Thank you for the idea.

And I'm still all ears, anyone else!

I hope it works. Let us know if he makes it.

Don

 

[Sherman]

As I feared, Don, no dice.

I fed a small mix of some chopped/smashed oyster, and some shredded fresh shrimp. The clowns and sixline didn't know what to do, they were in heaven. Every one of my LPS decided it was a great time to extend those polyps and see what they could grab. They all ate well.

The foxface has made a couple slow laps around the bottom of the tank, and is now hiding back in his normal sleeping hole, but he looks a lot thinner today than even yesterday. As what I consider another sign that this will end badly is the new shift in power over dominance of the tank. One of the cinnamon clowns, the bicolor blenny, and the sixline are all flashing/flaring each other. Perhaps they sense it's time to define a new top dog. I hope not.

On a positive note, I've had a tiger tail cucumber missing for about 2-3 months, I presumed he was dead, because the tank's only 38g. Today I found him again. And again, 30" away. So either's he's about a 4' long cucumber, or he split. Yay, another tiger tail!

 

[Sherman]

First, he made it through the night, and is holed up in his normal nightly spot.
I had another thought, what do you think?

When I fed the Formula 2 pellets (to get him to eat some greens), I had to mix them in with the Spectrum pellets he normally eats, or the Formula 2 wouldn't be touched. All the alternative food attempts were because I saw him getting thin, and this might have simply been because I wasn't feeding him enough.

So perhaps the thinness is just a coincidence, and his current status is because he ate something he didn't like, since I tricked him into it? I'm just shooting in the dark here.

 

[prbhasson]

Sherman, It sounds similar to the problem I had with my Algae blenny. The first couple of months he seemed o.k. but as time went on he got skinnier and skinnier. He would eat Nori and pellets. I searched and searched trying to find the problem but he ended up in fishy heaven. The only thing to date I have found that might have caused his demise is cyanide poisoning. When these fish are caught some of the company's use cyanide to catch them. It ends up causing intestinal problems for the fish. Especially if they get a heavy dose. They are able to eat and function but the cyanide causes their intestinal tract to become no good to them as it will not break down the foods and let them gain the nutrition from it and they slowly starve to death. I hope this is not your case but it sounds like it may be. Good luck and keep us posted

 

[Reefdaddy1]

Sherman, It sounds similar to the problem I had with my Algae blenny. The first couple of months he seemed o.k. but as time went on he got skinnier and skinnier. He would eat Nori and pellets. I searched and searched trying to find the problem but he ended up in fishy heaven. The only thing to date I have found that might have caused his demise is cyanide poisoning. When these fish are caught some of the company's use cyanide to catch them. It ends up causing intestinal problems for the fish. Especially if they get a heavy dose. They are able to eat and function but the cyanide causes their intestinal tract to become no good to them as it will not break down the foods and let them gain the nutrition from it and they slowly starve to death. I hope this is not your case but it sounds like it may be. Good luck and keep us posted

I agree, I have seen and had the samething. I never could put a reason for it. but suspected the samething. I have as of late no fish do this when my tanks were up , but it seems to happen at certain times of the year as well. Not sure there is anything you can do but hope it turns out well.

 

[ronj]

it could be an internal worm...

 

[Sherman]

So the foxface is back to his normal eating habits. He's attacking food again. I sort of posted this previously, but for lack of better explanation, here's what I've decided happened.

1: Lack of proper feeding on my part started to thin him down. I spent three weeks on a graveyard shift, and didn't feed this guy as well during that time. This three weeks was pretty poor maintenance time for the tank, including my longest period ever without a water change. He's become an extremely high maintenance fish, requiring many small feedings every day, and that wasn't happening with my graveyard schedule. He became thin.

2: Coming back into normal like (day schedule), I spent more time back at the tank, and noticed he was thin. I assumed this was malnutrition, since he's always been so bad about eating any vegetation. I tried to feed him Formula 2 pellets, as well as a new frozen home recipe. He wouldn't eat it, so I mixed it all in with his normal diet. I figured he eats so fast, he'll just down the veggies, which he did.

3: He didn't fare will with the veggies, and got "sick" and stopped eating for a couple days.

Whatever happened, he's attacking food again. I've been using oysters, shrimp, and his normal Spectrum pellets soaked in Selcon to fatten him up. I saw a large (and FAT) foxface in a LFS today, and was saddened to know what shape my own was in. I'll be taking care of that, hopefully.

 

[steve-s]

You need to keep at the veggies, it's very important for long lived success. The continued mainly meat diet will land you back with this problem very quickly if anything arises with the Fox in the future. Meat proteins/fats are not the same as with vegetable matter and the Fox will not gain relative nutrition. This means you feed more and more and it receives less and less. With a high carb/veg diet, the Fox will be able to gain usable nutrient from the foods and require less to get there. The larger/older the animal, the more important this becomes. Except with P. hepatus, tangs and foxfish both require a certain amount of meat protein while in their early development stages but as they mature, meaty proteins give way to the importance of vegetable proteins/carbs. Also very important is the use of a liquid marine vitamin and a HUFA based food additive.

 

[dnjan]

Too bad you are so far away. I've got lots of bubble algae in my tank he could eat.

You might try putting some grape caulerpa on a clip in the tank. He might be insisting on eating real algae.

 

[steve-s]

Avoid Caulerpa's if you can. Stick with other macro alga's better suited for herbivore consumption.

 

[Sherman]

You might try putting some grape caulerpa on a clip in the tank. He might be insisting on eating real algae.

I'd love to, but:

Location: Central CA

Steve-S, a very specific question. What exactly would you feed? Do you have a specific vitamin? And I'm headed out to research HUFA, as I'm not familiar.

EDIT: Oh. I soak his food in Selcon often.

 

[steve-s]

The vitamin is up to you, Vita Chem or Zoe would do, I use the latter. Soak both in the Selcon (HUFA) and the vitamin with foods for minimum 45-60 min or overnight.

The foods I would choose for this fish are: Broccoli florets, Sea veggies or the like, Chaetomorpha or similar non caulerpa species and alternating frozen Formula 2 and Pygmy Angel formula. Grazing foods can be altered regularly as the formula types but personally I try to avoid dried items where possible.